3UC/4UC for VP: Project Coordination Thread

[pineappledan]

Yaaaayyy god, I feel like a bully sometimes

 

[adan_eslavo]

You have just good arguments most of the time and I'm not so stubborn.

@pineappledan Where do you take those infos about future updates from?

Do someone know the difference between functions:

• Plot:IsWOfRiver()
  
• Plot:IsNEOfRiver()
  
• Plot:IsNWOfRiver()
  
• Plot:IsRiverSide()

 

[pineappledan]

Plot is west of river, plot is northeast of river, etc, then simply plot is somewhere on river.

I don’t know for sure, but it certainly seems like plot:isriver is what you are looking for; don’t need to be on a specific side of the river.

I got the information from this post by G.
Other things we know:

• Oracle is getting a free temple
• Borobudur, Hagia Sophia and Angkor way are likely to get free buildings (stupa, church and Mandir, respectively)

 

[hokath]

Two things on the Nilometer.

First, I think flax should be improved by farm since otherwise it;s going to break nice farm adjacency placement that have been set up. Flax is farmed irl.

Second, I don't know how much sense it is that the Nilometer can be built without having a river. I mean, what is it there to measure in that case! Not to mention it is now better to *not* be near the river. That's starting to get a bit hard for the AI to understand: that not next to river is a good thing because you're getting the opportunity to build a Well out of it.

 

[adan_eslavo]

• I can see Agribussiness changes. Denmark update needed also.
  
• I can add River requirement but then Nilometer will need to get buff. There will be not much Niolomters in the Empire.
  
• I need to check if Egypt has River in starting bias.

 

[Ziad]

Two things on the Nilometer.

First, I think flax should be improved by farm since otherwise it;s going to break nice farm adjacency placement that have been set up. Flax is farmed irl.

That thought came to my head too, and would make sense, but wouldn't it be an effective nerf as Plantations actually benefit from pantheons and many buildings, unlike Farms which specifically require Wheat except for the general "Farm" buffs.

Unless Granary and God of the Sun would be made to buff Flax. It could be thematic. :thinking:

 

[adan_eslavo]

It will do it automatically.

I can see that they also want to change Elephant Camp/Workshop (no jungle bonus).

 

[Hinin]

It should currently cost the same as the base rifleman, does it not?

I checked : the Pracinha costs 800 Pr, while the Rifleman costs 900 Pr.

Not super jazzed about this change. I think having a UU that’s a cultural-closer through warmongering works much better as a modern era replacement. If you are moving it that far up, I think you should reduce the amount of tourism on kills

I agree.

My vote has been for your “convert to Barbarian in disbanding” idea, @Hinin. With that you don’t need open borders because the barbarian will wander in by itself. You can harass cities and disrupt infrastructure on enemy coastal cities without declaring war.
The current proposal has that serious issue that you already described: the barbarian’s first action as soon as you plunder a trade route is going to be to attack your own ship. That’s a serious drawback, in fact it makes the unit WORSE, not better. It basically hurts itself by plundering

I know that this "convert to barbarian in disbanding" idea would be difficult to code, but I think that's the best we can get if we absolutely want to not see the "enter rival territory" bonus used.

 

[Ziad]

It will do it automatically.

What will?

 

[adan_eslavo]

My bad it won't. We need to add Flax to God of The Sun manually. But Do we need that?

 

[pineappledan]

First, I think flax should be improved by farm since otherwise it;s going to break nice farm adjacency placement that have been set up. Flax is farmed irl.

The art assets we have are for a plantation. I agree that farms would be nice since they wouldn't be taking up good adjacency space; if you want to make farm improvement assets for the flax then we could use them. For now, I think plantation is fine, and it's what we've got

Second, I don't know how much sense it is that the Nilometer can be built without having a river. I mean, what is it there to measure in that case! Not to mention it is now better to *not* be near the river. That's starting to get a bit hard for the AI to understand: that not next to river is a good thing because you're getting the opportunity to build a Well out of it.

Be that as it may, Aztecs get their floating gardens UB regardless of if the city is on a river or not. This is just as bad, but if we restricted the building in such a way then we would be in an uncomfortable situation by having to balance a UB with a plot requirement vs a UB without.

We didn't start the fire.

I can see Agribussiness changes. Denmark update needed also.

About that, Here's the old version:

Spoiler :

UB: Andelsbevægelse (Agribusiness)
Unlocked at Fertilizer
+5 Food
+15% Food
+10% Production on Buildings
+2 Food / +1 Production, / +1 Gold on Pastures
+2 Food on Plains
Does not require Horses

Here's the new Agribusiness:

Spoiler :

Agribusiness
Unlocked at Fertilizer
+5 Food
+5% Food (G said the building is losing 10% food. It's unclear if this is a typo and he meant 15%, or if he meant the bonus would be reduced to 5%)
+1 food to Farms

How about this for the new andelsvegerdyboop?

Spoiler :

UB: Andelsbevægelse (Agribusiness)
Unlocked at Fertilizer
+5 Food
+5% Food
+10% Production on Buildings
+1 Food on Farms
+2 Food / +1 Gold on Pastures
+1 Food in city for every farm within 3 tiles of the city
+1 Production in city for every Pasture within 3 tiles of the city
Does not require Horses

I don't know if that is possible to count improvements within range of a city. Machu Pichu and Observatory already count mountains though.

 

[adan_eslavo]

They count city working tiles I think so it is 3 range. And I don't like this farm and pasture split. What is the sense of that?

 

[Ziad]

My bad it won't. We need to add Flax to God of The Sun manually. But Do we need that?

I mean the change to farm is already touching on flavor as it is. Flax being farm would have to be treated the same as Wheat, the only other farm bonus resource, as opposed to luxuries.

And I don't see why Flax should be an exception to pantheons when Figs from Latifundia can be buffed by Springtime.

In my humble opinion, making Flax buffed from Granary rather than Burial Tomb and have it be affected by God of the Sun would be pretty cool for flavor and theme. It would also keep it consistent with Wheat.
Just my two cents before you implement the code!

 

[pineappledan]

They count city working tiles I think so it is 3 range. And I don;t like this farm and pasture split. What is the sense of that?

Not sure I understand, but I'll try to explain myself:
+1 farm is default, same as base agribusiness
The original proposal was 211 on pastures AND 2 on plains. So a pasture on plains was boosted by 411 from this building. It's a bit much imo.
the +1 from farms would be given in the city, regardless of if you even have a worker working that tile. So you would have incentive to improve every tile within range of a city, even if you don't have the pop to work them
The +1 from pastures was moved to an identical mechanic, leaving the +2/1 on the pasture tile itself. They are high value tiles if you work them, but you will get a bonus in the city just for the pasture existing.

The main idea behind @De_Genius' building was to make the agribusiness buff pastures at least as much as it buffs farms, since Denmark was forced to switch its industries to livestock due to overproduction & price gouging by the US. with the agribusiness now directly buffing farms, I feel we can get a bit weird with how this plays out against pastures

Dunno how awkward it would be to have the description change for Egypt specifically or have it for everyone.

You would have to have the flax in the description for everyone, in case they conquer an Egyptian city. It's just easier that way.

 

[Ziad]

True. (You caught my edit D: )

You could just change God of the Sun to say: Farms on resources rather than Farms on Wheat specifically.

 

[adan_eslavo]

@pineappledan I got it. Now I'm a bit ret*rded.
So for now we will stay with plantation-flax until we have farm art?

 

[pineappledan]

In my humble opinion, making Flax buffed from Granary rather than Burial Tomb and have it be affected by God of the Sun would be pretty cool for flavor and theme. It would also keep it consistent with Wheat.

Wouldn't it be better for flavor to have one Egyptian UB buff the bonus of the other? Also, flax as a food source is secondary to its use in the production of linen. I think Caravansary is at least as appropriate

You could just change God of the Sun to say: Farms on resources rather than Farms on Wheat specifically. Or just say Flax outright.

"resources improved by farms" is the way to go I think.

Aren't we getting ahead of ourselves though? Is anyone willing to volunteer to make farm art assets for flax?

We have a plantation tile for flax. We don't have a farm tile

@adan_eslavo I am so upset that they bl**p out the word 'reta.rded' on this site. What are we, 9?

 

[adan_eslavo]

• I will wait with Andelbevaegelse, Buffalo Pound and Elephant Camp update until VP new version comes out.
• I will do plantation-flax for now.
• I don't think we should give Goddess of the Sun to Flax even if we managed to make farm art.

 

[Ziad]

Wouldn't it be better for flavor to have one Egyptian UB buff the bonus of the other? Also, flax as a food source is secondary to its use in the production of linen. I think Caravansary is at least as appropriate
"resources improved by farms" is the way to go I think.?

Fair enough. Caravansary also buffs Cotton (another textile important to ancient Egypt) so it's somewhat consistent with Burial Tomb. It would also avoid some balance issues from having the buff come immediately online. Also probably too much synergy with God of the Sun

 

[Ziad]

• I don't think we should give Goddess of the Sun to Flax even if we managed to make farm art.

Honestly a green version of Wheat is probably enough as the plants pretty much look the same.

https://www.greencoverseed.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/flax-field.jpg

I also don't see why you shouldn't when you give Springtime to Figs. Figs are far more common so any notion of OP goes out the window.