3UC/4UC for VP: Project Coordination Thread

[pineappledan]

Honestly, I'm not even sure I want to at this point, nor do I think it's a particularly smart idea.

I've done the SQL for the next 6 civs, leaving only the coca art, Inca SQL, flax art fixes and the lua for all 7.

I think passing this off for lua acts a sort of "seal of approval", that lets another pair of hands imbue it with another perspective.

 

[adan_eslavo]

@pineappledan

I think Figs and Flax should get similar treatment, in that they prioritize River > Grassland/Plains > Hills > everything else. Flax could get an extra priority on Flood Plains.

As for removing features, I'm not a fan of that as you are making a decision for the player beyond just placing on a tile. Features do have some unique characteristics after all. However you can also justify it from a thematic perspective in that some imaginary workers terraformed in those 10 turns and planted figs afterwards. So in a sense it's OK. I can definitely see some players just reloading the save to get it in a more ideal position, but :shrug:

They should definitely avoid Oasis. Removing it is actually a major choice (what if you're in a desert and just lost the Oasis? Screw that)

Although, Flax does grow in Marsh so maybe you could let that particular feature stay for it.

You sneaky guy! It won't work. 2 reasons:

• 1st: game when it comes to choose random number from a poll somehow chooses the same one each loaded game I tried.
• 2nd: There are 2 very important issues about which I know, I cannot resolve them and I will write a note about them in my main post. EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW THAT:
  • Latifundium: if you spawn figs and load the game from the moment before spawning that figs, they will not show up anymore. So you will lost one figs from your game.
    • Reason: It is because I clear database where figs location is storaged only at the beginning of the game. It is not possible to track what save you want to load and what data should be removed on loadgame. Sorry.
    • Solution: none.
  • Oppidum: if you build Oppidum in city A, the city A will get bonus 20 HP. But the city B has the same Oppidum in its range and tae that tile from city A and starts working it. Bonus 20 HP is still tied to city A. If you now decide to remove that Oppidum 20 HP will be taken from city B(!) not A.
    • Reason: there's no event triggered on moving tile from one city to another.
      
    • Possible solution: make Oppidum permament.

Nilometer:

• Do you want it to look like this:
  • Floodplain -> River Tile -> owned unfeatured terrain (grassland/plain/tundra/desert) -> unowned unfeatured terrain within 3 tiles of city
• or how it it programmed now:
  • owned Floodplain -> owned River Tile -> owned unfeatured terrain (grassland/plain/tundra/desert) -> unowned Floodplain -> unowned River Tile -> unowned unfeatured terrain within 3 tiles of city

Latifundium:

• Why making it so complicated? Instead of:
  • Grassland/plain(with or without hills)->Tundra(with or without hills)->desert(with or without hills)->forest/jungle->marsh (5 loops)
• now is:
  • Grassland/plain/Tundra/desert(all with or without hills, forest, jungle or marsh) picked randomly. (1 loop)

Baan Chang:

• Do you want
  • In light of the change, I vote for the 1/ on lumber mill and 1/ on "Logging camp".
• in place of +1 / Gold which is now? That's a nice buff. Sorry for asking but this seems to be really complicated. Instead of / on forests you want totally different /?
• What baout culture on Wat from jungles?

Andelbevaegelse:

• Yields from farms and pastures will be problematic. They have no function so they require lua code. And in there would be every turn scanning whole area of Denmark looking from farms and pastures. This is really annoying process for the game. Can we think of something else?

Main post updated! Look there to check for the changes.

 

[Hinin]

• Grassland/plain/Tundra/desert(all with or without hills, forest, jungle or marsh) picked randomly. (1 loop)

Spoiler Long answer :

I think each of the two resources should follow a different placement logic (but should always appear within 3 tiles of the city) :

- for the Flax, if the resource becomes indeed improved by a farm, then the logic would be to make the resource spawn in priority on a river tile, it having hill or not, forest/jungle or not, in owned territory ; the tiles where the flax cannot appear would be snow/oasis/marsh/mountain or any tile already owned by another civilization within 3 tiles of the city;

- for the Figs, the logic is different : the resource appears already improved, the tile in which it appears becomes Roman and the improvement is a plantation ; since having a plantation spawn in the middle of your "farm spot" can be counter-productive/infuriating, I think the placement should prioritize plain/grassland/toundra/desert without fresh water, with or without hill/forest/jungle (figs are able to grow on poor terrain, and resist drought), whoever the owner of the tile is (once again, the tile will become Roman anyway) ; if there is a forest/jungle/marsh, the f/j/m is removed the same way it is removed when settling ; the tiles which cannot accept figs are snow/oasis/moutain.


So, to sum up :

- For Flax, in order of priority :

• tile (with or without hill/forest/jungle) with fresh water in owned territory within 3 tiles
• tile (with or without hill/forest/jungle) without fresh water in owned territory within 3 tiles
  
• tile (with or without hill/forest/jungle) with fresh water in neutral territory within three tiles
  
• tile (with or without hill/forest/jungle) without fresh water in neutral territory within 3 tiles
  
• interdiction : snow/oasis/marsh/mountain

- For Figs, in order of priority :

• tile (with or without hill/forest/jungle/marsh) without fresh water within 3 tiles
  
• tile (with or without hill/forest/jungle/marsh) with fresh water within 3 tiles
• interdiction : snow/oasis/mountain

That's a nice buff. Sorry for asking but this seems to be really complicated. Instead of / on forests you want totally different /?

Culture is from the Wat (which will get a new bonus instead) ; the food to "forest LM" (Lumber Mill) is to compensate for the lost of food for forests from the Herbalist (so the forest LM would also serve as an "ersatz herbalist" on the tile) ; the production to "jungle LM" (called Logging Camp in pineappledan's post) is to compensate for the lost of production from the Workshop (no gold bonus, since the "jungle LM" already gives gold).
De facto, the Baan Chang would give 1 culture to all LM while reestablishing the bonus taken away from Herbalist/Workshop.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Spoiler Long answer :

I think each of the two resources should follow a different placement logic (but should always appear within 3 tiles of the city) :

- for the Flax, if the resource becomes indeed improved by a farm, then the logic would be to make the resource spawn in priority on a river tile, it having hill or not, forest/jungle or not, in owned territory ; the tiles where the flax cannot appear would be snow/oasis/marsh/mountain or any tile already owned by another civilization within 3 tiles of the city;

- for the Figs, the logic is different : the resource appears already improved, the tile in which it appears becomes Roman and the improvement is a plantation ; since having a plantation spawn in the middle of your "farm spot" can be counter-productive/infuriating, I think the placement should prioritize plain/grassland/toundra/desert without fresh water, with or without hill/forest/jungle (figs are able to grow on poor terrain, and resist drought), whoever the owner of the tile is (once again, the tile will become Roman anyway) ; if there is a forest/jungle/marsh, the f/j/m is removed the same way it is removed when settling ; the tiles which cannot accept figs are snow/oasis/moutain.


So, to sum up :

- For Flax, in order of priority :

• plain/grassland/desert/toundra (with or without hill/forest/jungle) with fresh water in owned territory within 3 tiles
• plain/grassland/desert/toundra (with or without hill/forest/jungle) without fresh water in owned territory within 3 tiles
  
• plain/grassland/desert/toundra (with or without hill/forest/jungle) with fresh water in neutral territory within three tiles
  
• plain/grassland/desert/toundra (with or without hill/forest/jungle) without fresh water in neutral territory within 3 tiles
  
• interdiction : snow/oasis/marsh/mountain

- For Figs, in order of priority :

• plain/grassland/desert/toundra (with or without hill/forest/jungle/marsh) without fresh water within 3 tiles
  
• plain/grassland/desert/toundra (with or without hill/forest/jungle/marsh) with fresh water within 3 tiles
• interdiction : snow/oasis/mountain

Culture is from the Wat (which will get a new bonus instead) ; the food to "forest LM" (Lumber Mill) is to compensate for the lost of food for forests from the Herbalist (so the forest LM would also serve as an "ersatz herbalist" on the tile) ; the production to "jungle LM" (called Logging Camp in pineappledan's post) is to compensate for the lost of production from the Workshop (no gold bonus, since the "jungle LM" already gives gold).
De facto, the Baan Chang would give 1 culture to all LM while reestablishing the bonus taken away from Herbalist/Workshop.

• It will be awkward if we spawn Figs on the other side of a city than Latifundium. I think we should stay with spawning it around Latifundium.
• Flax have plantation now and we stay with this version until someone make new 3D model.
  
• Flax spawn is almost the same as you written:
  • instead of hills which I banned in current version,
  • I will allow Flax to be put in jungle/forest.
    
  • I added flood plains requirement as an additional step. I think it is fine.
• Difference between Figs vs Flax for now:
  • Figs can be build on hills
    
  • Figs can be built on marshes, flax cannot (@pineappledan wrote why in earlier post).
  • Figs placement is randomly choosen.
  • Figs are spawned only around Latifundium (6 tiles), Flax in all city area (up to 36 tiles).

 

[Hinin]

It will be awkward if we spawn Figs on the other side of a city than Latifundium. I think we should stay with spawning it around Latifundium.

Latifundium gives a bonus to all adjacent farm/plantation, so, if you want, you can keep the Figs spawned adjacent to it, but it wouldn't bother me seeing them spawned elsewhere if it allows you to surround the Latifundia with farms.

Flax have plantation now and we stay with this version until someone make new 3D model.

Flax spawn is almost the same as you written:

• instead of hills which I banned in current version,
• I added flood plains requirement as an additional step. I think it is fine.

I can allow hilld for figs and here make the difference from flax

Figs can be built on marshes, flax cannot (@pineappledan wrote why in earlier post).

Ok then.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Spoiler Long answer :

Culture is from the Wat (which will get a new bonus instead) ; the food to "forest LM" (Lumber Mill) is to compensate for the lost of food for forests from the Herbalist (so the forest LM would also serve as an "ersatz herbalist" on the tile) ; the production to "jungle LM" (called Logging Camp in pineappledan's post) is to compensate for the lost of production from the Workshop (no gold bonus, since the "jungle LM" already gives gold).
De facto, the Baan Chang would give 1 culture to all LM while reestablishing the bonus taken away from Herbalist/Workshop.

So simple.
So what bonus to Wat do you suggest?

 

[Hinin]

Pineappledan suggested that the building could prevent rival spies from creating Unrest (turns of resistance in city + destruction of food) and/or Rebellion (spawning of barbarians near the city) in addition to the prevention of Destruction (destruction of building production) already given by the building. He said that he preferred the prevention of the Unrest action, since he had never seen the Rebellion action in a game.

I agree with PAD.

 

[adan_eslavo]

Ok I will add Unrest then. What's wth free Great art/Artifact slot he mentioned earlier? Add it too?

 

[Hinin]

Ok I will add Unrest then. What;s will Great art/Artifact slot he mentioned earlier? Add it too?

If you want : I don't think it's that helpful (except if you play tall Siam), since Castles already give a GWArt/Artifact slot.

 

[adan_eslavo]

• I will add it too. Only spy blocking instead of culture on jungle is way more situational and weaker. I think.
• May I add Great Jewel as a Great Work not an Artifact? It would resolve (probably all problems).

 

[Hinin]

May I add Great Jewel as a Great Work not an Artifact? It would resolve (probably all problems).

If it resolves almost all your problems, then I'm totally for it (since it changes almost anything in terms of gameplay).

 

[Ziad]

• 1st: game when it comes to choose random number from a poll somehow chooses the same one each loaded game I tried.
• 2nd: There are 2 very important issues about which I know, I cannot resolve them and I will write a note about them in my main post. EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW THAT

Could it possibly be a result of not checking random seed? Not sure if the SDK has that option implicitly. Probably not to make testing easier?

Could you elaborate the second point? Are you saying that if you plant a Latifundium and then reload before figs spawn, they'll never spawn?

Note to self: Clear schedule for the day if playing Marathon Rome

Nilometer:

• Do you want it to look like this:
  • Floodplain -> River Tile -> owned unfeatured terrain (grassland/plain/tundra/desert) -> unowned unfeatured terrain within 3 tiles of city
• or how it it programmed now:
  • owned Floodplain -> owned River Tile -> owned unfeatured terrain (grassland/plain/tundra/desert) -> unowned Floodplain -> unowned River Tile -> unowned unfeatured terrain within 3 tiles of city

Yeah the first option is better I think. It should always try to seek Flood Plains and River even if they aren't owned (if no available owned tile). It shouldn't grab them though.

 

[Ziad]

Update posted. Mostly just adding in the Carthage and Venice changes, with the Tophet lua. I made the Culture on unit purchase 10 scaling with era, as I feel that 5 is too low even for an ancient era building.

Nice.

Do faith buys count?

 

[adan_eslavo]

Could you elaborate the second point? Are you saying that if you plant a Latifundium and then reload before figs spawn, they'll never spawn?

Almost. You need to wait for the figs to spawn. Then reloading will cause figs never spawn again for that one latifundium. In your case there's no problem. You can test it easily. Just save game after building laifundium, wait for figs spawn, load game, wait for figs again and wait and wait forever. You will see the moment where Figs should Spawn by blinking Latifundium model on map right after click next turn. This moment is upgrading improvement.
Mechanics work like this:

• start game
• reset database
• build latifundium
• to this moment you can save and load game without a problem
  
• upgrade latifiundium and:
  • spawn figs
  • put latifundium coordinates into database to not spawn again figs after reload - this is because if we didn't put this coordinates every loaded game lua code would take database, look for coodinates and see there's nothing there, so there's no figs, so we need to spawn them. I had situations where after each reload same latifundium spawned new figs until it couldn't because there were not possible place anymore (6 figs).
  • from this moment you can save and load game without a problem

What about Oppidum bug. Set it to permament or change 20 HP bonus to something else?

Yeah the first option is better I think. It should always try to seek Flood Plains and River even if they aren't owned (if no available owned tile). It shouldn't grab them though.

Will be done. Now is:

• owned Floodplain -> unowned Floodplain -> owned River Tile -> unowned River Tile -> owned unfeatured terrain (grassland/plain/tundra/desert) -> unowned unfeatured terrain within 3 tiles of city

If it resolves almost all your problems, then I'm totally for it (since it changes almost anything in terms of gameplay).

It works even if I set it to Artifact, so ok. Theming will stay as was designed earlier. The only problem is if you set it to artifact then picture nor quote won't work. For any artifact (not only Jewel).




!!!
v22 out. Check carefully. Many complex changes. Many lua reworks. Many files merging.

 

[Ziad]

v22 out. Check carefully. Many complex changes. Many lua reworks. Many files merging.

Many wow.

Yeah just make the Oppidum permanent. Celtic resilience!

Alternatively you could just remove the defense bonus to the city and buff the defense on the tile itself.

 

[adan_eslavo]

One correction to the Andelsbevaegelse changelog:

• I did not put "+1f for every farm/+1p for every pasture in the city" part.

And Wat:

• No culture to forest and jungle.

 

[Infixo]

• 2nd: There are 2 very important issues about which I know, I cannot resolve them and I will write a note about them in my main post. EVERYONE SHOULD KNOW THAT:
  • Latifundium: if you spawn figs and load the game from the moment before spawning that figs, they will not show up anymore. So you will lost one figs from your game.
  • Oppidum: if you build Oppidum in city A, the city A will get bonus 20 HP. But the city B has the same Oppidum in its range and tae that tile from city A and starts working it. Bonus 20 HP is still tied to city A. If you now decide to remove that Oppidum 20 HP will be taken from city B(!) not A.

Can you write shortly what is the expected correct behavior in both cases?

 

[Ziad]

For the second, I believe what should happen is that the city should gain the defense bonus if it's owns the Oppidum tile and lose it if it doesn't.

In other words, if you change ownership of the tile, the bonus is also transferred either to or from the city.

 

[Ziad]

K both Adam and Blue Ghost's stuff has Egypt. I can't use both or else Egypt's Nilometer is unchanged from the old version.

I am officially befuddled. Time to merge them? lol

 

[adan_eslavo]

I merged and extended Egypt so Blue Ghosts version is officialy out of date. I will be merging this stuff partially. Not all at once guys. I do what I can. You can see how much other stuff is put aside adding civilization.

What @Ziad said is true. For Oppidum additional HP should be transferred from city A to city B when ownership changes. Unfortunately theres no function I know to check that Event.
If I set Oppidum as permament one problem will be gone (you cannot destroy improvement so no hp will be taken from cities). But still wrong city would have HP bonus.

For Latifundium it is simple: if figs spawn on map and you load game from the moment before the spawn (so this fig does not exist yet), then it should spawn again without a problem. But this would require tracking figs from on each save, then checking what save was loaded, loading proper database (where to store them all?). It is to difficult. And probably not worth.