5 zettabytes of data at Buffdale

[History_Buff]

It didn't create much outrage at all... it passed with huge partisan support... like the Patriot Act... can't vote against the Patriot Act, you'd be unpatriotic.

There is no check to "indefinite detention without trial", nor is there a check to "drone assassination without trial"...
The check was the trial.

None of that will matter until it happens domestically. That's essentially the way English law works.

If the government uses it to detain dissidents, there will be court cases. But nobody will strike it down until there is a court case about it, and there can be no court cases until someone is harmed by the law.

If the government starts using to simply start killing it's own citizens, citizen outrage will be required to stop it. Which is pretty much the way things have always worked.

 

[kochman]

None of that will matter until it happens domestically. That's essentially the way English law works.

If the government uses it to detain dissidents, there will be court cases. But nobody will strike it down until there is a court case about it, and there can be no court cases until someone is harmed by the law.

If the government starts using to simply start killing it's own citizens, citizen outrage will be required to stop it. Which is pretty much the way things have always worked.

We're not in England...
Drone missiles without trial, happens regularly... or does it not matter because it isn't within the US? Where, instead, you just get locked up forever, without trial.
It has been used on US citizens, we know this. All they need do is paint the person a terrorist, in the media, and there is no outrage.

I'd like to repeat this part...

If the government uses it to detain dissidents, there will be court cases.

What part of indefinitely detain without trial do you not understand?

 

[JollyRoger]

What part of indefinitely detain without trial do you not understand?

There have been court cases, all the way up to the Supreme Court that have given such detainees procedural rights and found parts of the statutes unconstitutional. Not that it is fully Constitutional yet, in m opinion.

 

[kochman]

Since the NDAA went into effect?
Or before?
I know there was before (Jose Padilla for example).

 

[History_Buff]

We're not in England...

It's called Common Law son. The US legal system has a tradition going back long before the independence of the colonies.

Drone missiles without trial, happens regularly... or does it not matter because it isn't within the US? Where, instead, you just get locked up forever, without trial.
It has been used on US citizens, we know this. All they need do is paint the person a terrorist, in the media, and there is no outrage.

Pragmatically speaking, yes, it does matter.

As for the lack of outrage, I'd say that isn't really true. There are plenty of people incensed about the treatment of Bradley Manning, who is almost certainly guilty of some pretty heavy stuff.

I'd like to repeat this part...what part of indefinitely detain without trial do you not understand?

That part where detention without trial also automatically removes your access to all legal services.

Really, if you want to look at real legal abuses, it should start at the way the government in general treats common criminals, rather than the stipulations of an act that probably have never been used.

 

[kochman]

It's called Common Law son. The US legal system has a tradition going back long before the independence of the colonies.

No kidding, however, in the past 200+ years, there have been branchings... give me a break.

Pragmatically speaking, yes, it does matter.

As for the lack of outrage, I'd say that isn't really true. There are plenty of people incensed about the treatment of Bradley Manning, who is almost certainly guilty of some pretty heavy stuff.

That part where detention without trial also automatically removes your access to all legal services.

Really, if you want to look at real legal abuses, it should start at the way the government in general treats common criminals, rather than the stipulations of an act that probably have never been used.

Ummm, they have been used, first of all...
Forget it, I can't even get you to accept that "without trial" means without trial... so it's like arguing with a garbage disposal. Enjoy.