5CC Space Race interest thread

[Spoonwood]

I think the bias towards Monotheism happened in Vanilla, but not in Conquests.

Pretty sure you don't need a trade route to give them gpt or to get gpt from them for techs.

 

[del62]

Yeah we dont need a trade route.

Question now we have magnetism can we trade over ocean tiles without navigation?

 

[del62]

I have had a look at the save and we a have an option to man manage moscow so Leos and Newtons finish on the same turn, we would need one taxman/scientist but that would be OK 9both could complete in 9 turns as long as no one else completes in 9) which is a risk, where are babylon in the turnset?

 

[DWetzel]

I have had a look at the save and we a have an option to man manage moscow so Leos and Newtons finish on the same turn, we would need one taxman/scientist but that would be OK 9both could complete in 9 turns as long as no one else completes in 9) which is a risk, where are babylon in the turnset?

That would be a fine idea. Babs wouldn't switch from Leo's to Newton's, so it's just a matter of would someone ELSE finish Leo's in time to create the cascade.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Why slow down Leo's and raise the odds we lose it? Once it finishes, there will be no danger to Newtons, as the AI can't hold a wonder build 4 turns after it's already built. No one will suddenly discover techs and steal it. Plus, Moscow shouldn't waste turns on anything. We can launch our GA in the early IA, which is very good timing with Newtons. Lets take the safe route, build Leo's then wait until Newtons finishes for our GA and gifting.

 

[del62]

I dont have a problem either way, whether we plough ahead on our own, build TOG in Moscow or set Leo and Newtons to finish on same date

If we get Medicine we go sanitiation if Steam then should we go Electricity or Industrialisation

 

[DWetzel]

I dont have a problem either way, whether we plough ahead on our own, build TOG in Moscow or set Leo and Newtons to finish on same date

If we get Medicine we go sanitiation if Steam then should we go Electricity or Industrialisation

Industrialization definitely >> Electricity here, because we can build Universal Suffrage nice and early and kill off any goofy cascades into ToE that might happen there.

Plus factories, though they are somewhat less important than in a more normal game.

 

[Bucephalus]

Plus factories, though they are somewhat less important than in a more normal game.

lurker's comment:

I would suggest that considering it's 5CC with a SS VC they are probably more important; some of those parts are shield heavy, and you will still need to build units to maintain a credible defence.

 

[Spoonwood]

I would suggest that considering it's 5CC with a SS VC they are probably more important; some of those parts are shield heavy, and you will still need to build units to maintain a credible defence.

Ah, but it'll take longer to research the last couple of techs, so there exists more time for spaceship parts to get built at the end. I don't see stacks of doom coming from every direction on this map. Then again, you might still speak correctly say if an unwanted modern age war comes about and they need lots tanks or something. In an OCC even with little military, a factory matters more than a regular space game.

 

[DWetzel]

lurker's comment:

I would suggest that considering it's 5CC with a SS VC they are probably more important; some of those parts are shield heavy, and you will still need to build units to maintain a credible defence.

Oh, I didn't by any means suggest that we wouldn't build them--just that rushing headlong to get them in preference to other things is less important than it otherwise would be.

As for defense, you are right, though the AI seem to be putting up a VERY poor attack so far. I do wonder when that will change. We will in due time (which is probably soonish, since we will run out of useful buildings pretty soon) want to get a couple decent defenders in each city, as well as some bombardment units. There hasn't really been a need for it as of yet though.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Hopefully, I can play this startng tonight, if not, tomorrow. Being a workday today, we shall see.

 

[TheOverseer714]

I have finished my turns. Rather than give the highlights here, read the turn-log:

Spoiler :

Pre-flight: CivAssist 2, Word running. Get the save loaded. Look things over.
Looking good. Clean up on all the money in the world that we can get…evil laugh.
Trade Chemistry to: Babylon for 50 gold and 16 gpt, Inca 180 gold and 43 gpt, and France for 40 gold and Dyes. Get 14 gold from the Ottomans for Gunpowder.
Make Viking peace deal for 149 gold and 18 gpt, Investigate Babylon for 172 gold.
Budget is now 189 gpt with 893 in the Bank.

Non-Combat
Workers 2
Slaves 13
MGL 1

Military units:
Warriors 1
Archer 1
Ancient Cavalry 18
Musket 1
Army 1, 3 Ancient Cavs
Caravel 1

Total units 25
Allowed units 15
Support cost 20 gpt

Contacts
Babylon-Peace
France-Peace
Inca-Peace
Ottomans-Peace
Vikings-War and Peace (after doing the deal)
Hittites-War
Portugal- War

Cities
Moscow, Size 12, growth in 11, Leonardo’s in 5 turns.
Novgorod, Size 12, growth stalled, Newton’s in 9 turns.
Rostov, Size 12, growth in 7, Bank in 5 turns.
Yaroslav, Size 12 growth in 13, Cathedral in 7 turns.
Yekatarinaburg, Size 12, growth stalled, Harbor in 2 turns.

Sliders
3/7/0, Metallurgy in 1 turns at 92 gpt, 646 in the bank. (This will change after dealing and investigating Babylon)

Hit enter=>

IBT: A few AI moves, nothing dangerous. We get Metallurgy, then the new era splash, then we’re asked for what we research next. I choose Industrialization, since our free tech was STEAM! Get palace expansion.

Turn 1, 550 AD: Look over the map, coal is 2 tiles due south of the eastern Iron. Will require a colony at least until Yekatarinaburg expands. As valuable as slaves are, I will use a worker ASAP.

IBT: Babylon demands Metallurgy, I refuse, they declare and grab 2 slaves.
Get palace expansion.

Turn 2, 560 AD: Kill the damn MDI, our slaves disappeared.
Find barb camp west of Rostov.

IBT: Babylon settler pair arrives near our army.
Yekatarinaburg Harbor=>Bank.

Turn 2, 570 AD: vAC destroys barb village west of Rostov. Army trashes Spear, getting 2 replacement slaves. Lose an AC attacking Larsa. Trade France Metallurgy for Printing Press, 60 gold and 7 gpt.

IBT: 2 Bab Bowmen inbound.

Turn 3, 580 AD: Kill Spear guarding Larsa and burn it. Cancel Portuguese alliance. Trade Inca Metallurgy for 20 gold and 27 gpt.

IBT: Babs send us another settler pair…yummy! We get Leonardo’s.
Moscow Leonardo’s=>Heroic Epic.

Turn 4, 590 AD: Army slaughters Spear, getting 2 more slaves.
Damn near lose our Caravel on redlined galley.

IBT: Ottoman settle Mugla near Yekatarinaburg.
Rostov Bank=>Worker.

Turn 5, 600 AD: Kill 2 Spears at Mari, leaving 1 LB.

IBT: A 3MC shows up near Mari and 2 more Bowmen.
Rostov Worker=>Knight.
Yaroslavl Cathedral=>Worker.

Turn 6, 610AD: Kill the LB at Mari, capture and burn the city.
Kill the 3MC.
Worker placed to colonize the Coal. Trade France Physics for 50 gold and 28 gpt.
Trade Incans Physics for 16 gold and 14 gpt. No one else has anything but pocket change and no gpt.

IBT: Unguarded slaves draw the Bowmen and another 3MC.
Yaroslavl Worker=>Privateer.

Turn 7, 620 AD: Colonize the Coal. Place slaves under healing army.
Begin first rail. Spot a barb camp.

IBT: Little movement, French send a galley out, probably with a settler.
Newton’s finishes! Novgorod Newton’s=>Courthouse. We begin Golden Age.
Get palace expansion.

Turn 8, 630 AD: Adjust slider to get nice profit from overrun on Industrialization. Destroy barb camp for 25 gold. Begin self-debate on whether to make peace with Babs and gift up now or not. I think after we get TOE started, as Medicine and Nationalism is all they could get.

IBT: A Hittite Pike/Settler step onto the ashes of Mari. Barb warrior attacks and promotes our vAC. Industrialization arrives, next is Electricity in 7 turns.
Rostov Knight=>Factory.
Yaroslavl Privateer=>Musket.

Turn 9, 640 AD: Privateer gives chase to Hittite galley.
Army wipes out Hittite Pike, taking 2 slaves.
Switch HE build in Mosxow to Factory.

IBT: The Inca demand Theory of Gravity…I give in, mindful of how much gpt they are paying us. Carrack shows up in our waters.
French land a settler pair S of Novgorod.

Turn 10, 650 AD: Inca will pay 60 gold and 91 gpt for Magnetism. If we do that deal, I recommend we gift up the Ottomans. If they don’t get Medicine, then we make peace with Babylon and gift them up.
Privateer goes red but sinks Hittite Galley.

Non-Combat
Workers 3
Slaves 17
MGL 1

Military units:
Warriors 1
Archer 1
Ancient Cavalry 17
Knight 1
Musket 1
Army 1, 3 Ancient Cavs
Trebuchet 1
Galleon 1
Privateer 1

Total units 29
Allowed units 15
Support cost 28 gpt

Contacts
Babylon-War, will talk
France-Peace
Inca-Peace
Ottomans-Peace
Vikings-Peace
Hittites-War, will talk
Portugal- War, will talk

Cities
Moscow, Size 12, growth stalled, Factory’s in 3 turns.
Novgorod, Size 12, growth stalled, Courthouse in 1 turn.
Rostov, Size 12, growth in 15, Factory in 7 turns.
Yaroslav, Size 12 growth in 8, Musket in 2 turns.
Yekatarinaburg, Size 12, growth stalled, Factory in 2 turns.

Sliders
10/0/0, Electricity in 6 turns at 65 gpt, 2552 in the bank.

2 pictures of our 'mighty empire':

Spoiler :

This one shows our one rail/turn team near Moscow and the single slave, the French settler pair near Novgorod(I say let them settle, as we are getting Dyes and gpt from them), and our 4 best cities. Note the Carrack northwest of Rostov.

This shows Yekatarinaburg and our damaged Privateer, just remember not to park it without a troop unit in that city or you'll get the infamous privateer bug. There are slaves near the coal colony and under our army. The ones with the army need escorted home.

The save is finally up:

 

[DWetzel]

Nicely done, sir.

If this were a 6CC we could build the Iron Works. Pity.

I would actually suggest that we try to hold off on building ToE for as long as reasonably possible, that we might get more valuable techs for it. If all went exceptionally well we could get modern era techs for it. I'm not actually counting on that, but it's within the realm of possibility.

 

[sk8boardbob2]

What is the privateer bug by the way?

 

[TheOverseer714]

The privateer bug is where AI ships attack a city with a privateer parked in it, thus declaring war. Since a privateer has no nationality flag, all nations will attack them, including allied nations. The first time I saw it happen, my jaw was on the floor. The polite English, my long term ally and trading partner, saw a privateer in my harbor healing and promptly attacked it, becoming a new enemy. The solution is easy, fortunately. They don't see one if there is a military unit also in the city where the boat is. It can be exploited if you want a war.
As for DW's comments, yes, the no iron works sucks, and yes there is no hurry to build the ToE. These AI's are so slow researching that we may need to research damn near everything ourselves anyway. My idea is to use the ToE and gifting to get into the modern age with a bang. With some luck, we might get 4-5 techs free if our timing is perfect.

 

[del62]

Nice play Overseer, do privateers cost upkeep if not they could prove very useful?

I see we should pull a worker of size 12 cities when they complete their current builds to get the railroading done quick

 

[DWetzel]

Nice play Overseer, do privateers cost upkeep if not they could prove very useful?

I see we should pull a worker of size 12 cities when they complete their current builds to get the railroading done quick

I'm pretty sure privateers still cost upkeep.

And yes, peeling workers would be a good thing--though I would probably only do it from towns with their food box filled up.

On tech trades/gifting, I think I would wait to do that until right as we are finishing our current tech research--but definitely no later than then. It's important to know if Medicine is available as a freebie; if it is we will definitely want Sanitation right after that. If not, Sanitation will take longer, which in turn means that we can probably time peeling off some more workers.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Built privateers cost upkeep, but the slave ships(!/3 chance) they generate are free. 2 or 3 built ones can generate a fleet, especially against galleys. When I built the workers i did, the food box was full, so that town grew back the next turn. I would continue this, we don't want to depopulate our cities. Also, get the slaves i grabbed back where they can do some good. Send the musket being built toward the warzone for a slave escort.

 

[del62]

It would be nice if one of the AI, say the Incans turned up with MT before we lose our saltpeter colony

 

[DWetzel]

It would be nice if one of the AI, say the Incans turned up with MT before we lose our saltpeter colony

It'd be nice but not essential at all. We'll find a way to get the saltpeter back later if we need it....