6 of 8 "successful" projects in Iraq are acutally failures

[MobBoss]

That is not debating the point, that is classic "we dont know the facts behind the facts, in fact nobody does, and the media's facts are biased, so I must be right" logic.

It is precisely debating the point as in 'this part of the story does not make sense to me and its lack of detail makes me question why its a failure'.

I never said nobody has the answers and I also point out the fact that parts of the story seem vague and unexplained. I think the story lends itself to some questions that remain unanswered which would possibly explain why or why not something is considered a failure in a warzone.

Anyway, if such a reply is your best attempt at debating the points/merits of the story, then this debate is over before its even begun.

 

[mrt144]

I think the problem is, we already know you have made up your mind and are just trying to fit the facts and the way they presented to fit what you believe.

 

[Stapel]

Like most of the Democrats, you only care for your chance to yet again bash your political opponents while proposing no alternatives.

Let's be fair! This is by no means an exlusively Democrat trait!

 

[Neomega]

I never said nobody has the answers and I also point out the fact that parts of the story seem vague and unexplained. I think the story lends itself to some questions that remain unanswered which would possibly explain why or why not something is considered a failure in a warzone.

So.. generators laying idle are not "failures", they are just an "opportunities that have not been realized yet"


Crumbling buildings are not "failures", they are "a chance for an even better reconstruction"

 

[Stapel]

How much did the September 11 attack cost America?​

----snap----

Fall of global markets: incalculable.[/B]

This is such a crap story.....

Facts, facts and facts please! On 11 november 2001, nearly every single stock market in the world ended up higher than on the close of 10 september 2001 .

Whenever people say 9/11 caused a stork market crash, they are either lying or ignorant.

 

[MobBoss]

So.. generators laying idle are not "failures", they are just an "opportunities that have not been realized yet"

If a generator is laying idle because its not needed then that is not a failure at all. If a generator is laying idle because it needs maintenance, then yes, its a 'failure' but not necessarily a show stopper.

Crumbling buildings are not "failures", they are "a chance for an even better reconstruction"

Again, I am awestruck by your most awesome ability at debate.

 

[mrt144]

If a generator is laying idle because its not needed then that is not a failure at all. If a generator is laying idle because it needs maintenance, then yes, its a 'failure' but not necessarily a show stopper.



Again, I am awestruck by your most awesome ability at debate.

if you go to the SIGIR website you will see that they state that electricity demand outpaces production.

 

[nihilistic]

I thought the first retort would be that you failed to simplify the fraction. Unless ... unless there were only 8 projects.

 

[Neomega]

If a generator is laying idle because its not needed then that is not a failure at all. If a generator is laying idle because it needs maintenance, then yes, its a 'failure' but not necessarily a show stopper.

NOT NEEDED!?



your logic has now spiralled into the absurd.

It's OK for the American taxpayers to waste money on generator projects that are not needed? This is not a failure how?

 

[Fox Mccloud]

AH HA HA!

What the hell does this mean?

I guess my posts are too complicated for some here. Someone is going to have to provide a "translation".

Please don't use double negatives when trying to sound wise!

I said;

In your deleusion you see only today and yesterday, not tommorow and that what we do today does not affect on tomorrow or the days afterwards.

There is no double negatives, only your lack of ability to understand my writings and points.

And...

If, you are for one second, trying to claim that the warlovers have any kind of foresight, I present to you the lies of you beloved leaders...

you know... reconstruction pay for itself... ...last throes, if you will... ..MISSION ACCOMPLISHED....

Here it is again...

The same old tried, tired talking points, the same tired regurgitated lines, same doing nothing. The same obsessing with the past while doing nothing for the future. Same old harangues and rants that completely ignore the real issues repeated by the same anti-everything zealots.

 

[Neomega]

The same old tried, tired talking points, the same tired regurgitated lines, same doing nothing. The same obsessing with the past while doing nothing for the future. Same old harangues and rants that completely ignore the real issues repeated by the same anti-everything zealots.

They just keep bringing up the truth! How can we beat doze wascawwy wibewaws?

Same obsessing over the past!



Anti-everything!! Classic! You're wrong, I'm not anti anything! I am pro-withdrawl, pro-gun, and pro-history, pro-truth and pro-fact!

Yeah, um, I am using the past as a gauge on your future telling abilities.

Lets see... here.. add a 4 there.. carry the 1... divide by zero...

opp... look at that.. you guys got a 0%.


Now things may change, but the current bushpologist future teling trend inicates a high level of suckiness with 50% chance of Repugnant embarrassment, and always a good chance of sprinklings of corruption.
(of course, here in Seattle, what we call a sprinkling, the rest of the US would call a downpour)


Give it two weeks, and you'll be trying to tell me Gonzales has the mind of a steel trap... when I bring up his piss-poor performance before congress...
McCloud: "ahh geeze, you keep looking to the past.. not the future! In the future, he'll remember better!"

 

[MobBoss]

NOT NEEDED!?



your logic has now spiralled into the absurd.

It's OK for the American taxpayers to waste money on generator projects that are not needed? This is not a failure how?

Let me ask you a question. What is the purpose of a generator? To provide electricity in the absence of the main grid providing it. Is the generator still needed to run if the main grid has been reconnected? No.

Also, please note that I did say "if'. Since the linked story doesnt go any appreciable detail as to why the generators are not on, I think an 'if' a requirement in dicussing the issue.

 

[Neomega]

Let me ask you a question. What is the purpose of a generator? To provide electricity in the absence of the main grid providing it. Is the generator still needed to run if the main grid has been reconnected? No.

I am sure you, who always has an opinionon Iraq, are studied enough to know that grid uptimes are atrocious. The generators are most assuradely required.

Also, please note that I did say "if'. Since the linked story doesnt go any appreciable detail as to why the generators are not on, I think an 'if' a requirement in dicussing the issue.

I don't. Ifs and hypotheticals are not ways to present facts. They are just ifs and hypotheticals.

And I ma going to go with the reporters, who have looked over the documents, or perhaps even visited the sights, as opposed to someone 12,000 miles away whose best qualifications are he is "in the army".

 

[MobBoss]

I am sure you, who always has an opinionon Iraq, are studied enough to know that grid uptimes are atrocious. The generators are most assuradely required.



I don't. Ifs and hypotheticals are not ways to present facts. They are just ifs and hypotheticals.

And I ma going to go with the reporters, who have looked over the documents, or perhaps even visited the sights, as opposed to someone 12,000 miles away whose best qualifications are he is "in the army".

As opposed to your best qualification...which is 'I surf the net'. As a city boy, I am willing to bet you have never even touched a generator, let alone a military one.

So, fine, go with your story. However, I remind you of the fact, that if the story were spun the opposite way, you would be all over its lack of detail in a heartbeat. Dont try to deny that...you have done it to death too much to deny it.

All you have proven here is that you are more than happy to go with negative stories from Iraq no matter how broad or un-detailed and that you are totally unwilling to discuss such 'facts' in debate on the stories merits - or lack thereof.

Pretty much what I expected.

 

[Neomega]

As opposed to your best qualification...which is 'I surf the net'. As a city boy, I am willing to bet you have never even touched a generator, let alone a military one.

oops.. ooops... oops...

All I was stating was that when presented with facts from the BBC, and a questioning of facts from "a guy in the army", I am going to stick to the facts from the ones with obviously alot more expertise and study on the subject.

And these generators are not necessarily "military", I have run a generator, and my roommate works on generators sometimes.

And, I am pretty sure these generators are not back-up generators as you have assumed, but power generators. Why would they be building back-ups in a country that doesn't even have full power yet?


P.S. And I am much further in the country than you... I am in the Seattle area... but I am much, much further from Tacoma or Seattle than you are.

 

[Neomega]

So, fine, go with your story. However, I remind you of the fact, that if the story were spun the opposite way, you would be all over its lack of detail in a heartbeat. Dont try to deny that...you have done it to death too much to deny it.

Actually, mobboss, I never use the "but what about what we don't know tactic", I always go with the facts as they are presented.

The only time I get into hypotheticals is
1. when I point out how human nature has been taken out of the equation
or
2. When I am predicting the future, then I use past trends to make forecasts.

But I never just try "there is so much we don't know, it's all so confusing, so I am actually right"

 

[Pontiuth Pilate]

Hey, you liberal idiots, didn't you get the message on the first page?

LEAD, FULLOW, OR WATE I KIN ONLY COUNTS TO TWO. DAMN YOU SOCIALIST BURROW OF EDUMACATION!

*cue image macro from crazy right-wing site*


PS: TALKING IN LOUD PRINT MAKES ME LOOK FORCEFUL AND INTELEGENT

 

[MobBoss]

And these generators are not necessarily "military", I have run a generator, and my roommate works on generators sometimes.

Well, gee...thats a heck of a qualification! You obviously know what you are talking about.

And, I am pretty sure these generators are not back-up generators as you have assumed, but power generators.

Err. Back up generators ARE power generators...you just dont use them unless the primary goes down.

Why would they be building back-ups in a country that doesn't even have full power yet?

Ok, let me educate you. One. The dont 'build' the generators there...they are shipped there and some of them are about the size of an industrial shipping container (ie. huge). Two, you have a back up precisely because the country doesnt have full power yet and you still want power if your primary generator goes down - didnt you catch my comment earlier telling you that having them go down once or twice a week is a common occurance?

In the Army, your main TOC (Tactical Ops Center) will always have at least 2 generators...a primary and a backup for the sole reason when the one goes down your operations are not interrupted waiting for it to get fixed.

P.S. And I am much further in the country than you... I am in the Seattle area... but I am much, much further from Tacoma or Seattle than you are.

If you are in "the Seattle Area" then you are indeed much closer to Seattle than I am as I live outside " the Seattle area". Two. Being in the army, going out to the country (field exercise) is a very commonplace event, and guess what....we use generators out there. And yes, I am licensed to operate/maintain them. So I know just a little bit about how the work and how reliable they are.

 

[MobBoss]

Actually, mobboss, I never use the "but what about what we don't know tactic", I always go with the facts as they are presented.

Yes, you most certainly have. In fact, I distinctly remember you doing this in regards to the Falluja debate and your 'proof' (or lack thereof) of how WP was used there. I seem to recall you saying that the US Helicopters were 'spraying' WP rounds at people......at least you were until I proved to you that no such round exists for weapons used on US helicopters.

Be that as it may; do you think the story does a good job of giving detail as to why such things listed are indeed failures? I think it could have been far more detailed, which would have helped understand the 'whys and wherefores' of the story.

 

[mrt144]

As opposed to your best qualification...which is 'I surf the net'. As a city boy, I am willing to bet you have never even touched a generator, let alone a military one.

So, fine, go with your story. However, I remind you of the fact, that if the story were spun the opposite way, you would be all over its lack of detail in a heartbeat. Dont try to deny that...you have done it to death too much to deny it.

All you have proven here is that you are more than happy to go with negative stories from Iraq no matter how broad or un-detailed and that you are totally unwilling to discuss such 'facts' in debate on the stories merits - or lack thereof.

Pretty much what I expected.

Go to the SIGIR website. there are some great graphs and charts showing everything. The fact is, you dont know squat about why they are using industrial generators because as a hayseed you assume a generator is something made by honda to power your barn during a ho-down.

Gas turbine generators account for the largest power source in Iraq, not as backup or otherwise. They are only being utilized at 48% of feasbilitiy.

http://www.sigir.mil/reports/quarterlyreports/Apr07/pdf/Report_-_April_2007_Complete.pdf

Thats a step up of 9 % from last quarter. Good job guys! But the daily average is still less for the entire energy sector than it was before the war. and is still 1/3rd below the 6000 mhw goal.

Furthermore they are still well below demand being met as a percentage of capacity of produced, and it gains and decreases month to month, with no discernable pattern of progress.

Where did you get this mentality of not exploring the source material or looking into things yourself?