63 days of independence

LDeska

LDeska
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
Messages
415
Location
Poland
"Today I have issued the order you have been waiting for"
General Bór-Komorowski,
Commander-in-chief of the Home Army (Armia Krajowa)
1st August 1944

Yesterday, 17:00 CET was the 63th anniversary of outbreak of Warsaw Uprising. It's the most important day of year for many citizens of Warsaw. I especially left my office few minutes earlier to be out in the streets at 17:00 - as each year whole Warsaw stopped for one minute to pay a tribute to 200.000 people killed during Uprising - sirens were turned on, people in cars used their car horns, pedestrians, buses, trams, subway, all stopped.

As it is historic forum, so a little bit of background: 1st August 1944 - Red Army approaches Warsaw (is 20 kilometers from Warsaw), Germans are preparing to withdraw - Polish Underground Army - Armia Krajowa (AK) starts Uprising to which it was preparing for long 5 years of occupation. After short time most of Warsaw is liberated, Poles issue newspaper, Radio is broadcasting, people are free at last. But then something horrible happens - Russians stops for half year and watch Germans regrouping, reinforcement with tanks and other heavy equipments enters Warsaw and raze city building by building. Russians not only refuse to help, they also refuse allies to use their airports to refuel their aircrafts that were aiding the resurgents by airdrops.
As a result, after 63 days of heavy fight Warsaw is totally razed, 200.000 people (including 180.000 of civilians) were killed by Germans, rest of inhabitants were expelled.

Aftermatch.
Russians entered abandoned Warsaw in January 1945, they installed puppet regime that denied everything related to Warsaw Uprising - it was forbidden to talk about it, just like about soviet aggression in 1939, Katyń, Charków and Miednoje massacres where Russian murdered tenths thousands of Polish officers, police officers, priests and other 'enemies of revolution'.
If you saw Roman Polański movie 'The Pianists' - there is a scene where Szpilman survived Warsaw Uprising and lives in a city of ghosts - it was how Warsaw looked like when Russians 'liberated' it. From almost 2 millions city left only few thousands people who hid in rumble.
Now the bright side - this Uprising is called a forge of modern Polish nation. Warsaw was rebuild and is again a 2 millions city. Poles showed that will never surrender and some historians thinks that it was the reason why in 1981 there was no soviet tanks in Warsaw, just like it happened in Prague and Budapest earlier. It took 8 more years but finally in 1989 communism in Poland collapsed, (then Berlin Wall fell and other countries followed this path).

Further reading: http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/august/1/newsid_3932000/3932555.stm
http://www.tvn24.pl/-1,8116,1516427,raport_wiadomosc.html
http://www.1944.pl/
 
I know I will probably be insulted for saying this but I think people blame the USSR far too much for what happened to the Pole's in the Warsaw Uprising...

Perhaps the Russians could have aided the city, if not in one way then in another. But perhaps they couldn't. We cant say for sure, I mean we weren't their...

And really, even if that is the case, you can't really blame Russia so much as you can blame Stalin (Who if I recall correctly, hated the Poles)

I await the insults that will befall me for my views.

(Also, as I've mentioned several times in the past I am part-Polish, and though I prefer my Russian side I do find pride for my Polish side in these tales of courage...)
 
I don't want to insult you or any other Russian - you are as guilty as I am (what means - you're not guilty :) ). We are young people who have nothing to do with it.
The most important thing is to remember and avoid such tragedies in future.
Of course it's ridiculous to say that soviets 'maybe couldn't help' - they stood on the Wisła river (eng. Vistula) (technically they were even in Warsaw, as Warsaw is located on both banks of Wisła) for almost two months and waited until insurgents bleed out.

Area controlled by Poles around 4th August:
Spoiler :
200px-Warszawa_Powstanie_1944-08-04.jpg


It was very easy to help the insurgents - it was middle of summer, no problem to cross the river - both river banks were controlled by Poles and Russians, it was enough to put pontoon bridge and send some troops there.
Anyway - it was intentional to make installation of communistic regime in Poland easier. Home Army was loyal to Polish Government in exile (in London) which wanted independent Poland, as it was before war. So Soviets again, like in 1939, cooperated with Nazis to kill those people who didn't wanted to see communism in Poland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Uprising
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lack_of_outside_support_in_the_Warsaw_Uprising
 
Yes, I am really happy Poland is back in the fold, and with both NATO and EU.

The Russians (or Soviets at that time) are a sinister people and more related to the Mongols than the Europeans. I am quite sure that the EU would never go farther east to include Byelorus and Ukraine. I also think Bulgaria should be kicked out of the EU.

The Soviets played double throughout the entire war, and their heroism was for themselves, not for Europe. So the sacrifices made on the East Front was only a move to perpetuate further evil in the fifty years to come. The ones being conquered by the real allies were the lucky ones, both France, Italy and Western Germany can praise themselves for not being "liberated" by the Russians. For every square kilometer the Russians seize, one less square kilometer of freedom. This is why the resurgence of Russia under Putin is dangerous, even though he should probably be more cautious of China than we of him.
 
I'm also very happy about Poland being in EU and NATO. I can't agree that Russians are 'more related to the Mongols than the Europeans'. Ethnically Russians are Slavs, just like Poles, Czechs, Serbs and many many other european ethnic groups. Most of Russians live in Europe so I think that they are Europeans, not Asians...
I agree with the rest of post - it was always good thing to loose a war to "westerners" like USA, UK (West Germany, Japan, South Korea) than to win a war with "easteners" like Russia, China (Poland and rest of Eastern Europe, North Korea, Vietnam).

Paris had similar uprising, but of course they received help and it ended up far better than Warsaw '44.
 
LDeska, what type of equipment did the Poles have and where did they get it from? Where they limited to small arms, or did they field anything heavier.
 
Yes, I am really happy Poland is back in the fold, and with both NATO and EU.

The Russians (or Soviets at that time) are a sinister people and more related to the Mongols than the Europeans. I am quite sure that the EU would never go farther east to include Byelorus and Ukraine. I also think Bulgaria should be kicked out of the EU.

The Soviets played double throughout the entire war, and their heroism was for themselves, not for Europe. So the sacrifices made on the East Front was only a move to perpetuate further evil in the fifty years to come. The ones being conquered by the real allies were the lucky ones, both France, Italy and Western Germany can praise themselves for not being "liberated" by the Russians. For every square kilometer the Russians seize, one less square kilometer of freedom. This is why the resurgence of Russia under Putin is dangerous, even though he should probably be more cautious of China than we of him.

Sure, its not like the West ever betrayed Central Europe to the Soviets... oh wait.
 
Especially pretty ballsy when they counted on aid from the same Red Army that massacred 20 000 unarmed officers in the Katyn Forest.
 
Well, I don't think they heard of that at the time. Besides, they thought the Soviets were the lesser of two evils, like the Ukraine. I mean, which would you have as a conqueror, Nazis or soviets?

(Oh wait... That's kind of hard :p)
Considering there were entire Polish divisions in the Red Army approaching Warsaw, it wouldn't have seemed too improbably they would pitch in.
 
I was present at the anniversary last year, there was a B-17 that flew over the city and dropped free tickets to the new uprising museum. That was cool, and the museum was great.

There was one of the resistance made Sten guns on display, one of the secret manufacturing places was situated next door to a SS building, the Germans never found it.
 
Especially pretty ballsy when they counted on aid from the same Red Army that massacred 20 000 unarmed officers in the Katyn Forest.

Is that why Britain thought that its a good thing to give in 1000's of White Russians over to the Soviets at the end of the war?
 
Sure, its not like the West ever betrayed Central Europe to the Soviets... oh wait.

Yep, Roosevelt did it. The same FDR who receives so much love every time there is a "best president" thread. FDR in Yalta is for me an exemple of poor negotiation and complete lack of foresight - yet another reason why FDR was in my opinion a horrible president and certainly not a statesman.
 
I think you mean into. Molotov cocktails won't melt a Panzer, or even worse, a Tiger, unless you throw like 700 of them. compressed into one spot. :p

The flames will blind the driver and gunner's view sights.
 
Back
Top Bottom