(8-02) 4UC Arabia

[pineappledan]

This is a thread for discussing the addition of 2 more unique components to the Arabian civilization.

Spoiler Full kit with 4UC changes :

Spoiler Description of new components and changes to existing kit, differences from base component are underlined: :

UM - Hashemite Raider (replaces Light Tank):

unlocked at Combustion​

1300 Production cost​

does not require Aluminum​

58 CS, 52 RCS​

5 Movement​

"Garland Mine" (No Movement Points used on Pillage. 15 Damage to adjacent Enemy Units on Pillage)​

"Desert Raider" (Double Movement and +25% CS on Desert)​

is a Mounted Unit instead of Mechanized​

UB - Bimaristan (replaces University):

available at Education​

300 Production cost​

+3 Food and +3 Science​

Specialists in the city generate +1 Food​

+1 Science to Jungle and Snow​

1 Scientist Specialist Slot​

-1 Unhappiness from Illiteracy​

15% of Faith Purchases in city converted to Science and Food​

25% of the Science Output of the City as an instant boost to your current Research on Citizen Birth​

 

[pineappledan]

reserved

 

[azum4roll]

is a Mounted Unit instead of Mechanized

Mechanized doesn't matter. It's unused in civ5. Anti-mounted bonus actually works on Light Tanks and Helicopters.

 

[Stalker0]

So it looks like the Camel Archer's bonus would flow right into the Hashemite Rider. So properly upgraded, I would have riders with Splash I + Withdraw + Garland + Desert Raider. Seems pretty cool and eevne with that combo I don't think its OP. The new UB certainly gives a lot of food for more specialists and growth.

Seems fine enough, I don't feel the new buildings really enhance any arabia flavor to me, but they seem fine enough.

 

[pineappledan]

Overall grade: C
Arabia's kit is too tightly focused around the UA to the detriment of the existing UB and UU, nevermind the addition of 2 more ones. The Hashemite just doesn't work on a design level because of how it is the same upgrade line as the camel archer. I am overall unhappy with these components, but I think the base kit is at least 60% to blame for that.

Arabia - Hashemite
Theme - B. The bright spot of this unit. It's a post-independence Arab nationalist symbol that is Arabian, with no Iranian or African inclusions. Barring anything else it is Arab.
Mechanics - D. Totally DLL integrated, which is nice, but doesn't stand out or enable some new playstyle. The Camel archer upgrades directly into it, which is a major problem
Uniqueness - C. The only light tank in the game, but doesn't do much to stand out.

Arabia - Bimaristan
Theme - C. It's alright for theme, but the name and a lot about the institution has Persian influence. It fits with that tall religious Arab playstyle and doesn't rock the boat too much
Mechanics - B. This was where the yields on faith purchase bonus originated and then that got ported into the main mod. This used to be a really special and interesting bonus that has been watered down by the addition of many new things. It's still ok, but a lot less special than it was 6 years ago.
Uniqueness - B. Shares a base component with Korea, another tall science-y civ. Doesn't add much to round out the Arabian playstyle, because the Arab kit is such a closed loop that is so focused on the UA mechanic to the exclusion of everything else. Doesn't leave much space for a new UB to contribute. Overly unique? Not really, but that's the base civ's fault for being such a narrowly focused design, and not 4UC's

 

[pineappledan]

updated OP

Removed / yields converter.
Added to specialists

The Bimaristan is meant to mimic the bonuses of the later hospital. This change reflects the changes to the base hospital which happened last congress

 

[Cebrudras]

The Bazaar bonus is great in theory because of how well it ties into the UA, but getting it so early is kind of a trap with how much barbarians have been buffed. You cannot trust the AI to not have random barbarians inside their borders until like mid-medieval.

Does anyone have any ideas for how to adapt Arabia to that? Would just adding 'Your Caravans are immune to Barbarians' to the UA be fine and easy to implement?

 

[pineappledan]

Will someone please propose the Byzantium/Arabia swap?

 

[Cebrudras]

Will someone please propose the Byzantium/Arabia swap?

I actually really dislike that one lol. Pious Byzantium and Cultured Arabia is way cooler than the reverse. Making Arabia all about religion feels so cliche.
I would propably switch the capital to Baghdad, though, since that was the fairytale city that was just as magnificent as Constantinople. But then one would probably also need to adjust the Civ name and then some other component would be weird and so on...

 

[pineappledan]

Making Arabia all about religion feels so cliche

Civ operates wholly in the realm of cliches.

 

[Hinin]

Will someone please propose the Byzantium/Arabia swap?

Incoming
Let the feast begin

 

[Cebrudras]

Civ operates wholly in the realm of cliches.

Sure, I should have been more specific. Arabia and religion feels cliche on the same superficial level as focusing the Indian UA on Curry or base Japan where everything is about swords.

 

[Hinin]

Sure, I should have been more specific. Arabia and religion feels cliche on the same superficial level as focusing the Indian UA on Curry or base Japan where everything is about swords.

I've presented the current Japanese as "only being about swords" because Nobunaga is presented as a sword guy, with a sword unique unit and a building where people with swords train. This indeed, is bad cliché and must be fought against imo.

That said, making Arabia about religion (and not "only about religion") seems perfectly thematic and fine to me. The people of the Arabian peninsula have had an history before Islam, and I will try to present that part of their history in the kit I will propose, but in the end it is Islam that truly triggered the creation of their first empire and made their civilization more than a regional actor. It is not for nothing that "classical" Arabic is the most widely spoken liturgic language today.

So yeah, I do think Arabia's kit should have a significant part of it about religion. Of course, the rest will show that there is more to Arabia than that, but in the context of civilization-style essentialism, it is quite clear-cut what the core will be about.

 

[pineappledan]

I can sponsor this

 

[Recursive]

Timestamp post to arrange all the threads in a neat order.