[Vote] (7-92) Integrate 4UC Mod Into Vox Populi

[CppMaster]

Voting no. Unique Units are already crazy overpowered; they completely wipe the map with the units that they replace. So much so that often times my goto strategy is: forward expand -> rush unit tech -> declare war and stomp all my neighbours. While there is something to be said for adding more unique units makes every unique unit less unique (and be extension less powerful), I'm strongly against cluttering the map with a bunch of unit variations that have different versions of "+x stat/perk"

That's the point of them, so they are strong. If they're too strong, they could be balanced via VP congress.

 

[DoveCDog]

That's the point of them, so they are strong. If they're too strong, they could be balanced via VP congress.

Not gonna happen. Twice the unique units, twice the gimmicks, twice the balancing woes

 

[statusquo]

Not gonna happen. Twice the unique units, twice the gimmicks, twice the balancing woes

They could be balanced in such a way, that unique components, especially units, are more spread in time, so that for specific civilisation, the next power spike would be like at last full era later, this way you would have to
worry about one thing at a time. Althou that would be a little bit strange in case "ancient" civilisations, since figuring out their "modern" unique componenets would be pure sci-fi

 

[azum4roll]

People like their "fun" mechanics. It took years to nerf Lebensraum even though everyone knew it's broken.

I don't even know how to convince people to nerf those unique components with 4 abilities stacked on top.

 

[Heinz_Guderian]

This isnt an E-sport game, so how people think absolute balance is paramount is something I wont understand. We can play Warcraft 2 where all the units are exact copies of eachother if we want balance. Let's remove all unique components then.

 

[CppMaster]

Not gonna happen. Twice the unique units, twice the gimmicks, twice the balancing woes

It's totally gonna happen. That's the whole point.

 

[N.Core]

I just want 4UC because I want more functionality to be exposed to the database, feature requests are just getting ignored these days.
I don't care about the components since I can change them myself if I dislike them.

 

[N.Core]

Not gonna happen. Twice the unique units, twice the gimmicks, twice the balancing woes

Less knobs makes balancing harder, as we can see in the last several VP congress which overhauled some civs because their kit are underwhelming. With more components, you can nerf an offending components and buff the other one. UU1 is broken? Then nerf it but maybe we can buff UU2 to compensate the change.

 

[Captain Carrot]

This isnt an E-sport game, so how people think absolute balance is paramount is something I wont understand. We can play Warcraft 2 where all the units are exact copies of eachother if we want balance. Let's remove all unique components then.

Ackchuyally, in both Warcraft 1 and 2 human and orc spellcasters have different sets of spells. So in fact it's quite close to two civs with UUs on the same unit.
I agree with the broader point though.

 

[CppMaster]

In some 1v1 games players do play on mirror map and both play as Brazil, so it's a vanilla civ until very late, which is unlikely. It was NQMod, though, not VP. It'd be cool to have it in advantanced options that all civs are vanilla civs just for the cases.

 

[Heinz_Guderian]

Ackchuyally, in both Warcraft 1 and 2 human and orc spellcasters have different sets of spells. So in fact it's quite close to two civs with UUs on the same unit.
I agree with the broader point though.

I considered adding that caveat, but deemed it unnecessary. I guess it is a fair point, I loved the games when I was a kid but I would never ever play them now because they are just worse than WC3, which is probably the greatest RTS ever. Too boring with carbon copies with different skins. The spellcaster doesnt do enough.

 

[CppMaster]

I considered adding that caveat, but deemed it unnecessary. I guess it is a fair point, I loved the games when I was a kid but I would never ever play them now because they are just worse than WC3, which is probably the greatest RTS ever. Too boring with carbon copies with different skins. The spellcaster doesnt do enough.

So W2 is kinda like Civ or AoE, where you have everything the same except for unique components and W3 is kinda like Endless Space 2, where a whole faction is totally different.

 

[Captain Carrot]

I considered adding that caveat, but deemed it unnecessary. I guess it is a fair point, I loved the games when I was a kid but I would never ever play them now because they are just worse than WC3, which is probably the greatest RTS ever. Too boring with carbon copies with different skins. The spellcaster doesnt do enough.

I agree, just found the analogy interesting. I grew up with WC3 and tried 1 and 2 later, and yeah, 3 is leagues better. The earlier ones had awesome music though.

So W2 is kinda like Civ or AoE, where you have everything the same except for unique components and W3 is kinda like Endless Space 2, where a whole faction is totally different.

The analogy is surprisingly fitting, considering WC3 introduced hero units with XP and learned skills and item slots, kinda like Amplitude games.

 

[DoveCDog]

WC2 >>>> WC3
Killer soundtrack, functional naval combat, no gimmicky heroes, no gimmicky upkeep, you don't need to babysit your units with the teleport staff, and you can actually have armies larger than a couple control groups

Let's remove all unique components then.

Or lets add 10 each. Then it'll be more like WC3 as opposed to WC2.

Anyway, just me and my unpopular opinions.

 

[CppMaster]

Anyway, just me and my unpopular opinions.

Yep, not popular at all.

 

[Recursive]

I just want 4UC because I want more functionality to be exposed to the database, feature requests are just getting ignored these days.
I don't care about the components since I can change them myself if I dislike them.

Bug reports take priority over feature requests, and 84 bug reports are currently open. The backlog is being worked on.

 

[N.Core]

Bug reports take priority over feature requests

"Bug reports and VP congress changes take priority over feature requests" fixed it for you.

 

[Recursive]

Fair.

 

[JavaBaklava]

This isnt an E-sport game, so how people think absolute balance is paramount is something I wont understand. We can play Warcraft 2 where all the units are exact copies of eachother if we want balance. Let's remove all unique components then.

Absolute balance, no, but it's still important to that things aren't unbalanced such that there is an overpowering dominant strategy. That homogenizes gameplay to a greater degree than having zero unique units ever would. In my opinion, a good balance is not one where everything is perfectly equally balanced, it's one where you don't do the exact same thing in every game. For example, Authority is obviously the go-to Ideology for Domination victories, but if you're constantly picking the same six policies with zero deviation to get to tier 3, regardless of civ, regardless of the situation, something needs to be looked at. Hell, on paper Order should be a viable way to do Domination as well, so there should be situations where it might be more attractive than Authority.

Or lets add 10 each.

That's something I've been wondering about as well, are things going to get to the point where we add 5UC and 6UC, and then 7UC and 8UC, etc? What's going to be the line in the sand? I'm thinking the upper limit should be each civ should have some kind of goal each era driven by their UCs, so in theory no more than 8, but that runs into the homogenization problem I was talking about earlier.

 

[pineappledan]

Sapiens has 6UC.