Rekk
Deity
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I voted yes, solely so that it can continue to be supported even after @pineappledan stops modding.
[Vote] (7-92) Integrate 4UC Mod Into Vox Populi
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Verdant
Chieftain
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- Oct 8, 2013
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I'm going to pop out of the woodwork and give an outsider perspective.
I've played vox populi for a few years now. Awesome mod and I love what you guys do here. I don't follow the balance changes or discussion, all I do is download the latest version every now and then, and it's a ton of fun.
I only recently heard about the 3/4UC mod. Frankly I wish I had been using it from the beginning. If not for a post on reddit I would probably never have learned about it.
First, some people say the learning curve for 4UC would be intimidating for new VP players. For me, and I think for many players, the hardest things to learn about VP were
1. happiness/unhappiness (by far)
2. reworked technologies/social policies/beliefs/new buildings/new units
3. new AI behavior
Contrast that with most unique buildings/units/improvements being essentially a "better spearman", "market with science and faith", "better trading post" etc; as long as they aren't explicitly traps, most players will incorporate them into their strategies accordingly.
Second, I don't think most people who play VP even know what 3/4UC is. I was aware of the existence of modmods but I didn't have the time or interest to sift through them to find ones that are well thought out and interesting, and have the quality assurance that comes with VP. It's hard to know what people who aren't here would want, but I'm sure most of us mastered or got bored of base civ5 and were looking to add some replayability to the game.
All this is to say that I think adding 2 new unique components to each civ is awesome flavor and gameplay, and I think there are tons of VP players out there who have never heard of 3/4UC and would probably love to play it.
I've played vox populi for a few years now. Awesome mod and I love what you guys do here. I don't follow the balance changes or discussion, all I do is download the latest version every now and then, and it's a ton of fun.
I only recently heard about the 3/4UC mod. Frankly I wish I had been using it from the beginning. If not for a post on reddit I would probably never have learned about it.
First, some people say the learning curve for 4UC would be intimidating for new VP players. For me, and I think for many players, the hardest things to learn about VP were
1. happiness/unhappiness (by far)
2. reworked technologies/social policies/beliefs/new buildings/new units
3. new AI behavior
Contrast that with most unique buildings/units/improvements being essentially a "better spearman", "market with science and faith", "better trading post" etc; as long as they aren't explicitly traps, most players will incorporate them into their strategies accordingly.
Second, I don't think most people who play VP even know what 3/4UC is. I was aware of the existence of modmods but I didn't have the time or interest to sift through them to find ones that are well thought out and interesting, and have the quality assurance that comes with VP. It's hard to know what people who aren't here would want, but I'm sure most of us mastered or got bored of base civ5 and were looking to add some replayability to the game.
All this is to say that I think adding 2 new unique components to each civ is awesome flavor and gameplay, and I think there are tons of VP players out there who have never heard of 3/4UC and would probably love to play it.
Adonis_VII
Chieftain
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- Aug 20, 2014
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- 27
For me the two main reasons I vote yes are stability and sustainability.
Stability: Moving LUA and dummy buildings to DLL would allow us to use the mod content in multiplayer.
Sustainability: I've also run into the issue of incompatible versions with modmods that I've not realized until after 50-75 turns because the incompatibility was not readily apparent. Merging into the core mod would alleviate that alteast for this content.
Stability: Moving LUA and dummy buildings to DLL would allow us to use the mod content in multiplayer.
Sustainability: I've also run into the issue of incompatible versions with modmods that I've not realized until after 50-75 turns because the incompatibility was not readily apparent. Merging into the core mod would alleviate that alteast for this content.
If they won't change the outcome (which is very unlikely that they will) then it doesn't matter at all.
You have defeated the innocent and the helpless. (ELIMINATED)
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No, but I won't be extending the vote, and I think I'll allow people to start making counterproposals. Give me a bit to figure out how this will work.
Oi! It is ELIMINATED in ALL CAPS. I added it quite a while ago, so it is now VP lore. Get it right.
Captain Carrot
Chieftain
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- May 4, 2022
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Hmm, have you ever checked the stickied FAQ thread and the "any recommended mods" question in its OP? I know 4UC isn't there currently, I'm just curious if you could've discovered it that way, if it was.
Verdant
Chieftain
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Been a really long time but I don't think I ever read the FAQ. I see its a recommended mod right now and all it says is "Extra civ uniques". It could use more of a descriptor, I'd probably gloss over that if I read it the first time
Chinag
Chieftain
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- Sep 4, 2015
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I've been using a lot of modmods from the mod repository of the forums here and I'd say that civs mods for the last 3-4 years have always had 4UC support.
You'd have to go really far back to find a civ on the forum that doesn't support it. In fact, its more likely that the Civ is broken from not supporting the latest VP changes than not having 4UC support.
But if you're talking about civs in the Steam workshops... then yea. They're designed for Vanilla and are definitely not balanced around VP's changes at all. VP isn't responsible for making sure Vanilla civs work in it.
tldr
Honesly the one biggest argument against it i heard some time ago was, that it will basically
double the amout of power spikes civilisations have, and that could be problematic even for "pro" playing on diety.
But sometimes without 4uu, game seems just too vanila
Having them together would be also an oppotunity to balance them correctly around those power spikes, so that its not too much
at same time for speciffic civilisations.
Honesly the one biggest argument against it i heard some time ago was, that it will basically
double the amout of power spikes civilisations have, and that could be problematic even for "pro" playing on diety.
But sometimes without 4uu, game seems just too vanila
Having them together would be also an oppotunity to balance them correctly around those power spikes, so that its not too much
at same time for speciffic civilisations.
Rustonreddit
Chieftain
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2018
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As it is right now is probably the opposite: with 4UC the games feel easier for the human. Saying that 4UC is more balance is a bit missleading, because those anaysis dont take into account a human player. AI balance between them is important, but all these years there has been a focus on making the AI make use of their kits properly between them AND against us. I guess the next months of balancing once is integrated could solve that.
Why would that be a problem for the player specifically? He also would have double the amount of power spikes.
Let say you have 2-3 neighbours, you have your second power spike like in medieval era, so you basically rely on 1 power spike.
So there is high chance, you will have to defend against sometimes overwhelming number of "super efficient" mechanics that your oponnent have.
Just more things to worry about.
I said "super efficicient", because those civilization unique componnets are basically exacly that. If you dont have anyhing to counter those, you might have problems,
in terms of army or economy..
For example, you are Korea, and you have as your neighbours. Rome, Grece and Soghai.. auch
But at the same time, if you were Aztec or Persia, that wouldnt be so painfull.
The argument was only about the number of those power spikes, if you have time to prepare, you might, but sometimes it just might be too much.
Like the Rome is good example. Both military uu come very fast, which very often in my game led to fast snowball, and basically game brick..
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My only concern with not adding it as a modmod option is that it forces any other civ modmod to come up with a 3UC/4UC design. Just because most of the current ones have a 3UC/4UC design does not mean the future ones can guarantee that.
I think the assumption is allowed that the future Congress will be balanced around 4UC with 2UC being an optional choice to take on to ease anybody transitioning from base game to VP.
4UC should then be (2b) with the Description.
I think the assumption is allowed that the future Congress will be balanced around 4UC with 2UC being an optional choice to take on to ease anybody transitioning from base game to VP.
4UC should then be (2b) with the Description.
Voting no. Unique Units are already crazy overpowered; they completely wipe the map with the units that they replace. So much so that often times my goto strategy is: forward expand -> rush unit tech -> declare war and stomp all my neighbours. While there is something to be said for adding more unique units makes every unique unit less unique (and be extension less powerful), I'm strongly against cluttering the map with a bunch of unit variations that have different versions of "+x stat/perk"
If they're crazy overpowered then that seems like something to change in the Congress. I feel like it adds a lot of flavor to have unique units that represent that civ's culture in some way fighting it out rather than Mongolian pikeman vs American pikeman vs Chinese pikeman vs Zulu pikeman vs ...
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