(8-14) 4UC England

[KlHannibal2]

Here is a playable England rework.
The 25% spy increase is gone, partly because I can't easily move it onto the building and more significantly because in my playtest the spies generated enough yields anyway.
I found it much improved. The combination of bonuses on the Redcoat is fun to play with and feels really strong.

UA -- Perfidious Albion
Civilian Units are Invisible and ignore rival borders. Naval Units cost 25% less Maintenance and gain +1% Strength for every Tile away from the Capital (up to 30%) and +1 Movement. (strikethrough part NYI, needs DLL change)

UU2 -- Redcoat (replaces Fusilier) --> this is instead of Longbowman <--
Rule Britannia - When embarked, gain +2 Visibility Range and +100% CS when defending. Ignore Terrain Costs. Lost on Upgrade
Sun Never Sets - +1% Strength for every Tile away from the Capital (up to 30%) and +1 Movement. Kept on Upgrade

UB1 -- White Tower (replaces Ironworks)
additions
+100 Spy Points
+Great Admiral points in addition to Gold and Science

The redcoat's defense bonus only applies when embarked, correct?

 

[hokath]

Correct.

 

[pineappledan]

Overall grade: B+
I am very happy with the UB; I am not so happy with the UU. The Steam Mill is an absolute must-have, unambiguously the greatest contribution of the English to the world. The Longbow is a menace. You mileage will vary depending on how much you think raw power equates to uniqueness

Longbowman
Theme - B. It’s a medieval English unit, and we already have the White Tower. It was a vanilla component so it is what was on hand.
Mechanics - C. +1 range and a bonus vs mounted means the longbow is a beast. I have been stopped cold by these units as Mongolia and have borne a grudge against them ever since. I haven’t played with them, but playing against them feels almost unfair.
Uniqueness - C. They are just really strong. Is that unique? There is only 1 other unique crossbow, and there aren’t many other units that have more range.

Steam Mill
Theme - S. The English started the industrial revolution. If you are going to have them playable in the game you have to mention that somewhere. If you know nothing else about the English it should be that they brought the world into the industrial age.
Mechanics - A. Early and coal-free factories that dump a huge amount of GEngineer points into your cities. Factories in all your cities is very thematic and kicks England into high gear for the end game. Is it too powerful? Maybe, but I repeat: England ushered in the Industrial Age. If this is too powerful then the rest of the kit should be nerfed. HungryForFood, in a fit of inspiration, decided to code the GPP for building completion after a specified age. So not only is this a totally unique mechanic, it’s also DLL integrated already.
Uniqueness - S. Totally unique mechanic, totally unique base building. Makes you feel like you’re about to turn into the workshop of the world. 10/10

 

[statusquo]

The bonus production from having a lot of steam mill is the same for every empire, except England does not need coal to achieve it

Honestly, due to not needing coal, and if i remember correctly, you can get Steam Mills tech tier earlier, their power spike was crazy.
The main reason im always play Autocracy is to have 100% more resources to get crazy amount of prouction, this England ability alone,
considering there are really two buildings that require coal, means, their need for coal is 50% of every other civilisation, so indirectly you can say
that they have 100% more coal, with additional bonus, that they do not actually need to mine it. In my opinion this is OP.

That being said, lastest rework of coal. can let you fight for coal an era earlier now, so you have time to prepare, and you kinda know like
100 turns earlier, if your power spike will be big or not, so that kinda mitigate England power spike, which biggest advantage relied on the fact, that
they will have Factories regardles of coal availability.

This also is very synergistic with England, since it allows them to focus on their main strength which is spying by adapting Order, having at the same time
crazy amoun of production. But at the same time, i think its kinda sad, that you are basically kinda forced to get into Order, since you dont have need
to get into Autocracy. Id like actualy to see some features, that would give england a meaningful reason to chose non-Order ideology..

Since Factories do require coal for work, i would say, much better design would be to give 1 coal every 2 factories. That would force England, to have actually
some coal, to get their coal oriented trait going. And that would actualy mean 50% more efficiency in managing coal, which is still a lot.

 

[hokath]

Why it very synergistic with Order? Because of the Factory-boosting tenet?

 

[statusquo]

Why it very synergistic with Order? Because of the Factory-boosting tenet?

Tons of spy points? Dont have the exat numbers on hand, but if i recall correctly, its double the amount Freedom have, and Autocracy dont have additional Spys.
Never in my games i saw England took any thing else then Order.

 

[hokath]

Aha ok the Spies. Yes, it is 200 from Order, 100 from Freedom, and 0 from Autocracy. (and 100 from Devotion )

Why exactly a civ picks a particular ideology is a bit long. We can look at CvPolicyAI.cpp
A reason not to adopt Order would be because you didn't have a diplomatic focus -- so apparently they don't have that.
Next it weighs up free policies.
Then it looks at the global politics of it all (what other people have adopted).
Then finally it looks at flavors and happiness gains. Here it might be that Order's spy policy combined with Elizabeth's Espionage flavor of 10 do bias the choice. I don't have those policy flavors to hand right now.

 

[pineappledan]

I will note that England gains 50% more for election rigging compared to other civs via the white tower, so covert action (Freedom) suits them rather well.

 

[pineappledan]

The steam mill is absolutely busted, it stacks way too hard when you have a big empire.

The bonus production from having a lot of steam mill is the same for every empire, except England does not need coal to achieve it.

Honestly, due to not needing coal, and if i remember correctly, you can get Steam Mills tech tier earlier, their power spike was crazy.

My opinion on the steam mill is this:
The thing that makes steam mill so good is the global 2 to all factories on empire, and that never should have been put on a base building in the first place.

The coal-free bonus is not unfair, it’s that the base factory has a bonus that shouldn’t exist. The power of this bonus is far too variable based on map size and is therefore not restrained enough to be suitable for a building every civ has access to.

And before anyone brings up the chaebol, that is 1 unique building on a civ whose bonuses otherwise cut against going wide. The building was intentionally designed to be a counterweight for the tall bonuses and offer a different style of gameplay to an otherwise very narrow, pigeonholed civ.

 

[pineappledan]

I can sponsor

 

[azum4roll]

How? Your proposed version of Steam Mill isn't DLL-integrated,

 

[hokath]

MAGI: There is a table that is meant to do
10% of building production is converted into Great Engineer Points on completion of any building from Industrial era or later
But it isn't working as intended, so it's DLL in the sense of "bug fix"

 

[azum4roll]

We should change the table name to Building_GreatPersonPointFromConstruction then.
Hopefully no modmods are using this.

 

[axatin]

MAGI: There is a table that is meant to do
10% of building production is converted into Great Engineer Points on completion of any building from Industrial era or later
But it isn't working as intended, so it's DLL in the sense of "bug fix"

What's the problem with the table?

 

[pineappledan]

Right now it just gives 10% progress towards a great person when a building is complete
The original discussion was for it to give 10% of the cost of the building as GPPs

 

[axatin]

I see. I can fix that.

 

[gwennog]

We should change the table name to Building_GreatPersonPointFromConstruction then.
Hopefully no modmods are using this.

Catalonia from me and MoreWonder from @adan_eslavo at least use this table.
I'm really not convinced that changing the name is necessary, but if you do, please give notice.

 

[axatin]

@gwennog @adan_eslavo Would you be okay with changing the functionality of the table as discussed or should England's ability be implemented using a new table?

 

[gwennog]

@gwennog @adan_eslavo Would you be okay with changing the functionality of the table as discussed or should England's ability be implemented using a new table?

No problem for me, it will just require a readjustment but it even seems better to me.

 

[hokath]

I use it too, but I also assumed it worked as in this tooltip so