A Babylon 5 Mod for the Final Frontier Mod

[Premier Valle]

Hello everyone!,

I'm happy to announce that Jump Points are back in the game!; although the current version is not a final one, it is a working one, better than the previous one IMO.

How does it work?:
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1. The player must have a ship with a Jump Engine (*1)
2. The ship opens the jump point (*2)
3. The "opening sequence" starts (*3)
4. New turn (*4)
5. The jump point is fully open and ships can jump through it. (*5)
6. New turn. ALL ships have jumped away, the jump point closes. (*6)

(*1) Formerly, a "Jump Engine unit" had to be loaded into a ship capable of building a "Jump Point" improvement. Now you just have to "open" the jump point.
(*2) Build a jump point improvement. You cannot build improvements in enemy territory.
(*3) The improvement gets built in the same turn, however, since the jump point is "opening" no ship can travel through it yet.
(*4) Culture/Influence is added to the plot where the jump point is located. Note that the culture added will belong to the "player" that has a unit in that given plot.
(*5) The ship(s) paradrops/jumps away. You cannot jump into uncharted space.
(*6) Since there are no more ships in the plot, the culture and the jump point are removed.

Did any of you catched a glitch here?... Well there is one "glitch" here, see more closely point 6.

That's right!, the jump point will remain open as long as there is a ship "powering it" (that is, a ship remains in the same plot of the jump point), and since the jump point closes at the next turn, there is a chance that another player moves a ship into the same plot before it closes and therefore, the jump point will remain open although the owner will change. Of course, since the jump point's plot "belongs" to someone else, war should be declared in order to enter the plot (or an ally/raider enters the plot - you know what I mean).

I'm happy to release the current version (which BTW supports saving games, although no data is saved). Right now I'm posting from work , so you'll have to wait until I get back home.

But before I do anything else to this jump point feature, a question arises, how long can a jump point remain opened???:

• We know that a jump point can be used by many ships.
• In the Narn-Centauri war we see a G'Quan Cruiser keeping a jump point open until a transport manages to flee through it (the cruiser never jumps and gets destroyed by Centauri Vorchans).

As far as I know/remember, as long as there is something (ship/jump gate) powering the jump point, it will not close.

In other words?, do we limit the amount of time (turns) a jump point can live?, or do we leave this feature as currently is?.

 

[PsiCorps]

But before I do anything else to this jump point feature, a question arises, how long can a jump point remain opened???:

We know that a jump point can be used by many ships.
In the Narn-Centauri war we see a G'Quan Cruiser keeping a jump point open until a transport manages to flee through it (the cruiser never jumps and gets destroyed by Centauri Vorchans).
As far as I know/remember, as long as there is something (ship/jump gate) powering the jump point, it will not close.

In other words?, do we limit the amount of time (turns) a jump point can live?, or do we leave this feature as currently is.

I would favour leaving it as it is however, there may be another option that we could use. There is a modcomp somewhere that allows units to 'take possession' of the terrain tile the unit is in. If we adopted and adapted this we could potentially be able to do all of what you have at the moment plus the possibility of opening a jump point in enemy territory. So the ideal situation to be in is to be able to open the jump point anywhere you have 'possesion' of the tile you are on with one possible amendment, if possible. The amendment being that if there are no ships 'powering' the jump point it will close instantly Although from you've said above, it sounds like this would not be possible without a major slowing down of the mod due to Python constantly checking the map every time a unit moves.

 

[Cmcastl]

I can't get 2.8 to work. It starts the intro and then some of the options but then crashes out. Is it because of this Final Frontier program problem which was previously noted?

 

[rtt4a]

I would favour leaving it as it is however, there may be another option that we could use. There is a modcomp somewhere that allows units to 'take possession' of the terrain tile the unit is in. If we adopted and adapted this we could potentially be able to do all of what you have at the moment plus the possibility of opening a jump point in enemy territory. So the ideal situation to be in is to be able to open the jump point anywhere you have 'possesion' of the tile you are on with one possible amendment, if possible. The amendment being that if there are no ships 'powering' the jump point it will close instantly Although from you've said above, it sounds like this would not be possible without a major slowing down of the mod due to Python constantly checking the map every time a unit moves.

I agree with psicorps, feature is good as it is.

Do we now also need jump gate- improvement? Great job premier, cant wait play with this btw any new ship models coming..?

 

[Premier Valle]

I agree with psicorps, feature is good as it is.

Do we now also need jump gate- improvement? Great job premier, cant wait play with this btw any new ship models coming..?

Ships not capable of opening their own jump point will surely need a Jump Gate (or another ship to open the jump point) in order to jump. This improvement has already been present in other versions of the mod, although I haven't checked if it is still present in the current version.

Pretty much every ship will be capable of making jumps, but only large ones will carry jump engines.

About the ships, sure, they are coming... someday , RL hasn't allowed me to go back to shipbuilding, but the next ship will probably be the Drazi shuttle.


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EDIT: Here is the jump point stuff: Download
It is not a full patch (hence the version 2.8.0.1), as it only enables the EA Narcisuss class to open jump points, but besides from that everything you need is here, python, xml and art.
Basically what is needed is to copy and paste the "<Builds/>" stuff in any unit that is to have a jump engine. The file is meant for PsiCorps so that a full patch can be prepared (version 2.8.1) of course, If any of you hardcore fans want to test it right away well,... ther you go!.

 

[PsiCorps]

Is it because of this Final Frontier program problem which was previously noted?

If you haven't got FF installed on your PC then you will experience problems. Reinstall FF and your problems should vanish.

The file is meant for PsiCorps so that a full patch can be prepared (version 2.8.1)

I'll start on this, hopefully, on Friday night. If anything changes or I have problems I'll post to keep you up to date.

 

[rtt4a]

The file is meant for PsiCorps so that a full patch can be prepared (version 2.8.1) of course, If any of you hardcore fans want to test it right away well,... ther you go!.

Thank you downloading right now

Ok, tested and it works fine. btw you possible other hardcore fans, adding build infos is not enough, unit needs also work rate value different than 0.

One thing comes my mind.. if you give pretty much all ships ability to jump (paradrop) as it should be, it creates a little problem. Early ships can paradrop in cities before vortex generators tech. Is it be possible to make paradrop ability disapled before researching vortex generators? It could be promotion maybe? Or could you do it in python?

 

[JohnDay]

Sorry, I thought I find a bug ... but it´s none. After I restart the game all work fine. You do good work it´s fun to play them.

 

[Justicar333]

Few questions. Finially gotten into a full scale war. So far, the enemy, Earth Alliance. Have flattened my beachhead, which was a stragetic planet of theirs next to some Quantium 40. It's been undefended now for probably twenty turns or better. Yet the computer isn't sending in ground troops to retake the planet. Is it taking a long time, or does the ai not yet understand ground combat? Have noticed the EA under president Clarke. Who have become a big menace with several vasal races. Doesn't seem to have taken any planets. Just beat them up untill the ai's finially capitulated.

Not only that, but noticed. Ai's space craft were able to engage my troops in combat. Even odder, my ground troops actually killed a few Hyperion cruisers in the process. Now I can't build anything in system, computer swoops in and destroys it too fast to control. But their still not retaking it...

 

[PsiCorps]

Few questions. Finially gotten into a full scale war. So far, the enemy, Earth Alliance. Have flattened my beachhead, which was a stragetic planet of theirs next to some Quantium 40. It's been undefended now for probably twenty turns or better. Yet the computer isn't sending in ground troops to retake the planet. Is it taking a long time, or does the ai not yet understand ground combat? Have noticed the EA under president Clarke. Who have become a big menace with several vasal races. Doesn't seem to have taken any planets. Just beat them up untill the ai's finially capitulated.

Not only that, but noticed. Ai's space craft were able to engage my troops in combat. Even odder, my ground troops actually killed a few Hyperion cruisers in the process. Now I can't build anything in system, computer swoops in and destroys it too fast to control. But their still not retaking it...

Yep, that's definitley an issue, I wasn't certain the AI would use the troops to capture planets. From what I've seen when they build Planetary Troops they pick the City Attack promotions instead of the City Defence promotions. I don't know enough about programming to know how to change the AI and get it to use the Troops as I want them to be used. So, unless we get help from some Uber programmer with an interest in FF/B5 this may not get fixed/resolved.

 

[Premier Valle]

Hello!,

Ok, tested and it works fine. btw you possible other hardcore fans, adding build infos is not enough, unit needs also work rate value different than 0.

good catch, I forgot to tell about it.

One thing comes my mind.. if you give pretty much all ships ability to jump (paradrop) as it should be, it creates a little problem. Early ships can paradrop in cities before vortex generators tech. Is it be possible to make paradrop ability disapled before researching vortex generators? It could be promotion maybe? Or could you do it in python?

Yep, I have noticed this before, unfortunately, I still have no answer for that one

I was thinking, from what I can remember in Warlords the "fort" could be built outside a players boundaries (in neutral territory), am I right?, if true, we could enable the construction of jump gates in neutral territory... further more, a small change in the jump point code would enable a ship to "activate" the jump gate so it is able to jump from it! (would raiders attack the neutral jump gates?)

@JohnDay
Thanks for the report

 

[rtt4a]

I was thinking, from what I can remember in Warlords the "fort" could be built outside a players boundaries (in neutral territory), am I right?, if true, we could enable the construction of jump gates in neutral territory... further more, a small change in the jump point code would enable a ship to "activate" the jump gate so it is able to jump from it! (would raiders attack the neutral jump gates?)

Hmm.. yes you are right, fort or any improvement can be build outside boarders if wanted so. It is simple change in improvement infos. And second question, barbarians wont attack neutral improvements.

And about that early ships jump problem, I have an answer but its not good one lots of work and maybe even performance effects but answer anyway You just have to make two versions of any ship that can be build before vortex, one without jump ability and one with it, ship can be upgraded when vortex tech is resarched. This would do it but it means lots of new units, 50+ easily.. as I said lots of copy paste

 

[rtt4a]

Yep, that's definitley an issue, I wasn't certain the AI would use the troops to capture planets. From what I've seen when they build Planetary Troops they pick the City Attack promotions instead of the City Defence promotions. I don't know enough about programming to know how to change the AI and get it to use the Troops as I want them to be used. So, unless we get help from some Uber programmer with an interest in FF/B5 this may not get fixed/resolved.

You could ask if tholal or koshling want help with this. Tholals more naval AI mod for ffh2 focusing AI improvements and koshling I believe can do pretty much anything wiht AI

And I did my own version of this as I suggest earlier. I made troops invisible again and transport ship only ship class that can see them besides other troops and only transport ships can capture planets. Have not tested this in game so I dont know how AI is handling it.

 

[PsiCorps]

I made troops invisible again and transport ship only ship class that can see them besides other troops and only transport ships can capture planets. Have not tested this in game so I dont know how AI is handling it.

An earlier version of the Mod had 2 types of planetside combat units, one for attack one for defence but the AI still did not know how to use, at least not that I ever saw, the units. One other thing I would like to do is to stop Ship units from being able to destroy the planet based units. This, coupled with the use of ground troops, would give me the effect I want to achieve.

 

[PsiCorps]

And about that early ships jump problem, I have an answer but its not good one lots of work and maybe even performance effects but answer anyway You just have to make two versions of any ship that can be build before vortex, one without jump ability and one with it, ship can be upgraded when vortex tech is resarched. This would do it but it means lots of new units, 50+ easily.. as I said lots of copy paste

This is something I am already considering but it wouldn't need to cover all units. Some units are simply not big enough to carry their own jump engine and will always need another ship to open a jump point. Others are only available after Jump Gate technology is discovered. I anticipate there being only 3 or 4 units for each civ that will need to have a pre and post jump point tech version. Which is much more manageable. I'm going to be looking at it today as I lost last night due to fatigue.

 

[rtt4a]

This is something I am already considering but it wouldn't need to cover all units. Some units are simply not big enough to carry their own jump engine and will always need another ship to open a jump point. Others are only available after Jump Gate technology is discovered. I anticipate there being only 3 or 4 units for each civ that will need to have a pre and post jump point tech version. Which is much more manageable. I'm going to be looking at it today as I lost last night due to fatigue.

Yes but.. jump engines = ability to build jump gate, but ability to jump (paradrop) is needed for every ship after jump tech even to smallest ones. However you are right that there is not so much those ships.. lets count, workship, transport, colony, both frigates, 1-2 fighters, earliest destroyer..? any more? I would say you have to make two versions 6-8 ships for each race.. 70-80 ships

 

[PsiCorps]

Yes but.. jump engines = ability to build jump gate, but ability to jump (paradrop) is needed for every ship after jump tech even to smallest ones. However you are right that there is not so much those ships.. lets count, workship, transport, colony, both frigates, 1-2 fighters, earliest destroyer..? any more? I would say you have to make two versions 6-8 ships for each race.. 70-80 ships

As the fighters are carried by other units they do not need to be able to paradrop, they already have the rebase facility so can port from one side of the map to the other in one turn. Much better than using a jump point, although not very B5.

As for the rest, yes, a large job but not insurmountable. I'll add a Pre-Jump Gate Tech Unit that is made obsolete once the Jump gate tech is researched or once Quantium 40 is available as a resource. I'll also have to add back the Quantium 40 requirement for all those units that can open jump points.

Don't expect to see a new updated version of the mod tomorrow though. This will take a while for me to do.

 

[rtt4a]

When can we expect updated version with premiers jump points..? No pressure but friday would be nice, free weekend for me

 

[PsiCorps]

When can we expect updated version with premiers jump points..? No pressure but friday would be nice, free weekend for me

I wish I could tell you it will be ready for tomorrow but there's a lot more work involved than I first thought. Fortunately I have a four day weekend this weekend so I am hoping I will have it finished by tuesday (It could be sooner if I don't get pestered )

Update: So far I've added the jump facility to 90% of the units and added in 5 new units including all of the pedia & strategy texts for 4 of them. Every change I make to the XML, I verify it's working by booting up the game and checking the civopedia. I've made too many mistakes in the past to do everything at once. This is the main reason it is taking so long, to ensure you have a working Mod. I could rush it out but then you'd get a broken Mod, I know which I would prefer to give you.

 

[rtt4a]

Ok, thanks for quick answer.

Let me know if I can help with something.. testing or solving xml-problems..