A Borgesian phrase

Kyriakos

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Somewhere in the labyrinth of one of his essays, Borges claimed that a very lowly, uneducated, filled with hatred and disgust individual was in reality having a reason to exist, only not for himself, but as an inspiration of a literary character to some author.

This caused me to think again some old idea, that so many people seem to me to be living an existence which has no value, no meaning, no plan or quest.

Granted that to them many others may seem to be resembling that for which i took them for, but perhaps it can be logically argued that a majority of people live their lives with no meaning at all, either because they are not seeking a meaning, or because they fail to acquire one.

My own life has a clear meaning in my view, which is a double meaning: I inevitably influence the people around me, both in positive and in negative ways, both in accounted for and mostly in unknown to me ways. But mostly the meaning is found in my own esoterism, my literary and philosophical work, my thousands of pages of notes and paragraphs, which present in them a figure, some common center of the infinite circles and spirals formed around it.

The author Franz Kafka once wrote in his diary that in his view he was in this earth so as to describe the world he had in his head. I suspect this is true for all authors, but most people are not part of this group; most people perhaps have a relationship with art, but not as creators of it.

Also i have known people who were utterly horrible. Some bully in school, some person in the family, both lower than low physiognomies and characters. But one has to think that if there is some meaning in all this, then their existence has a reason as well. After all there would have been no Franz Kafka if there was not his father, who triggered his ruin.

Of course many people do not think there is a meaning. I do not like this idea though, and never did. I am pretty sure that if i actually thought there was no meaning at all, then i would be sunk in nihilism. Dostoevsky claims somewhere that "If god does not exist, then anything is allowed". Substitute god with "meaning" and i could agree, although i am not claiming that i would automatically become immoral if i thought all meaning had vanished.

So TL: DR: If you were in a labyrinth, you would feel afraid not just because you run the serious risk of being eternally lost there, but also due to the labyrinth's meaning, the minotaur in the center who you might have been walking nearer to with every step, nearer that tormentor of your flesh which would be severed by his teeth. But, inverted, this also means that if you walk in the grand labyrinth outside the common labyrinthine shape, that is the grand labyrinth of the cosmos, could you ever strive to do anything if not for a meaning in the epicenter of your attention? Is not the very fact that man tends to move along, and forward,with innumerable urges and wishes, revealing perhaps of some deeper sense of being meaningful as a creature?

And even more TL: DR: Do you believe in this life having a meaning? And if you believe so, why? And if you do not believe so, what justifies your continued existence in your view?
 
If we're getting philosophical, then all life is will to power, and the ubermensch is whomsoever is capable of creating a value within the nothingness of the abyss.

Let's assemble the components of your questioning and unify them - what we end up with is will - will is the composite fusion of purpose, value, feeling, consequence, mind, creative action and so on, that is necessary to resolve the separate issues you raise into a single whole.

Purpose arises from the fact that there are consequences - that those consequences can be good [pleasure] or bad [pain]. Thus, purpose really comes from pleasure and pain, and the fact that there is a real and unavoidable difference between the two.

But the Universe is also infinitely complex, which requires knowledge to constantly adapt to it. And our resources are limited, which requires mechanisms of power to even be able to apply what we know.

Thus we are defined by our limits - our limited knowledge and power - within a World of consequences. The operation of our selves within the context of these limits and consequences is the will to power complex.
 
Have you read Borges' tale about the two kings and the two labyrinths, Kyriakos?
 
Justification, meaning... that's all silly human stuff, a product of our mind. In contrast to that, the universe isn't a product of our mind. We would be extremely lucky to nevertheless find values conceived by our mind reflected in the universe.
And from everything I have gathered - we aren't. On the other hand, we are lucky enough to be part of this soulless existence in the first place.

Now those are the grim objective facts as I see them. I also already stated that the universe is not an reflection of our values. Which of course is first of all bad. But it is also our greatest strength in this misery.

If our values are reflections of ourselves and hence of how we perceive reality rather than meaningless reality itself and if they conceive meaning in the first place, why not give ourselves meaning then and tell the grim truth to screw itself? Really, the universe and its objective truth has no business whatsoever dictating meaning. It's not its game, its ours.

If you want meaning, stop dwelling on this fantasy of a higher meaning and find a way to make yourself experience subjective meaning, which is all meaning ever was designed to be.
How that is supposed to be accomplishment? Well I am sure there are numerous ways which work in numerous situations with numerous persons with varying success.
Having faith in something - i.e. believing a lie or half-truth - is supposed to help. Like ideals (such as justice or the good core of humans), or your personal awesomeness, or religion.
Being needed by others is also said to be very important.
But in the end life is complex and so are people. And that's why it is really hard to figure it out.

Maybe that's the meaning. To figure out what gives us meaning.
 
I plan to reply to all, i just woke up though so for the time being i will answer this one:

Justification, meaning... that's all silly human stuff, a product of our mind. In contrast to that, the universe isn't a product of our mind. We would be extremely lucky to nevertheless find values conceived by our mind reflected in the universe.
And from everything I have gathered - we aren't. On the other hand, we are lucky enough to be part of this soulless existence in the first place.



Now those are the grim objective facts as I see them. I also already stated that the universe is not an reflection of our values. Which of course is first of all bad. But it is also our greatest strength in this misery.

If our values are reflections of ourselves and hence of how we perceive reality rather than meaningless reality itself and if they conceive meaning in the first place, why not give ourselves meaning then and tell the grim truth to screw itself? Really, the universe and its objective truth has no business whatsoever dictating meaning. It's not its game, its ours.

If you want meaning, stop dwelling on this fantasy of a higher meaning and find a way to make yourself experience subjective meaning, which is all meaning ever was designed to be.
How that is supposed to be accomplishment? Well I am sure there are numerous ways which work in numerous situations with numerous persons with varying success.
Having faith in something - i.e. believing a lie or half-truth - is supposed to help. Like ideals (such as justice or the good core of humans), or your personal awesomeness, or religion.
Being needed by others is also said to be very important.
But in the end life is complex and so are people. And that's why it is really hard to figure it out.

Maybe that's the meaning. To figure out what gives us meaning.

Very nice. You present the fact that the external world (and its sum,the cosmos) exists as an object by itself,that is as something which cannot be seen for its true form (for it has no true form) and its qualities can be only speculated inevitably anthropomorphically.

I agree on this. But then there is another facet of the external world: our own mental construction of it.
You seem to deem the latter as something trivial, or at any rate a mistake. But in my view it is neither; if one extrapolates your position he is indeed met with possible misery, i recall a phrase by De Maupassant, in which he claims that he is without eyes, or he is in an utter darkness, for only his fallible senses present some image of the world. It is true, but then again "man is the meter of all things" is a dynamic reply to this issue, even if flawed by itself; we are what we are, and indeed the reason why we seek meaning is possibly (or more than possibly) related to the question of meaning itself.
 
If we're getting philosophical, then all life is will to power, and the ubermensch is whomsoever is capable of creating a value within the nothingness of the abyss.

Let's assemble the components of your questioning and unify them - what we end up with is will - will is the composite fusion of purpose, value, feeling, consequence, mind, creative action and so on, that is necessary to resolve the separate issues you raise into a single whole.

Purpose arises from the fact that there are consequences - that those consequences can be good [pleasure] or bad [pain]. Thus, purpose really comes from pleasure and pain, and the fact that there is a real and unavoidable difference between the two.

But the Universe is also infinitely complex, which requires knowledge to constantly adapt to it. And our resources are limited, which requires mechanisms of power to even be able to apply what we know.

Thus we are defined by our limits - our limited knowledge and power - within a World of consequences. The operation of our selves within the context of these limits and consequences is the will to power complex.

I liked the phrase "nothingness of the abyss"... However i am not necessarily suggesting that for meaning to exist, there has to be some secret connection between the individual and the cosmos (other than the ones already evident; the individual is part of the cosmos).
Interesting that you claim we are defined by our limits. I agree with it as an aphorism, but i mean something (probably) else:

-The human being is at the same time capable of realizing an infinity as an abstract creation, and as a solid one. This seems to be why the paradoxes of Zeno exist (in my view) since we can see that a distance is formed in theory out of an infinite amount of smaller parts, but we also can see it as something abstract, fleeting, and calculate precisely at which point in time the one runner will overtake the other.
Thus i would say that we are defined by our double ability to view infinites.
 
Very nice.
Thanks :)
But then there is another facet of the external world: our own mental construction of it.
You seem to deem the latter as something trivial, or at any rate a mistake.
No, a "mistake" would again be one of those "silly" human concepts, as it requires a being with an agenda to applied in the first place. But yes, trivial is fitting.
The reason I think it to be trivial is that as I see it man and how he measures the universe is in the end not more then an accident of natural laws muddling along. And those laws in themselves seem arbitrary, or if one wants to dig deeper, their source seems so.
Which if true means that objectively everything is trivial. How else could it be without some divine consciousness moving beyond the observable world and giving it meaning?
It is true, but then again "man is the meter of all things" is a dynamic reply to this issue, even if flawed by itself; we are what we are, and indeed the reason why we seek meaning is possibly (or more than possibly) related to the question of meaning itself.
I agree, that's in essence what I mean by saying that meaning is a man-created and entirely subjective concept to begin with. Which IMO doesn't make it any less trivial, but with justifies to not care that it is.
if one extrapolates your position he is indeed met with possible misery
"Possible", I guess so. But IMO only because one chooses to interpret it that way. I think it can be viewed as an act of liberation as well.
To explain: If everything is trivial, it also means that whatever you choose to do carries the same justification, whatever you choose to believe carries the same justification. It means that there is no need to have your emotional fulfillment be limited by anything else than what constitutes such fulfillment (and laws of nature of course).
I find this to be very up-lifting, it offers a new dimension of freedom to me.
Or to put it in simpler words: If there is no actual point in anything, there is also no point in worrying over it.

But not that I hence abandon morality. I need morality for my emotional fulfillment, for having the emotional desire called meaning met (I already referred to ideals as a source of meaning). But I don't assume that there is any other not in the end arbitrary justification for embracing it. And that's maybe what scares people, this reduction of justification to individual emotional needs. Which can also be translated as solely standing on one's own two feet instead of clinging on supposedly "higher" orders of justification.
Of course, this makes it a lot harder to control people, too and in accordance to that makes them less predictable. And I assume that's why a society as a whole is naturally adverse to such a philosophy. But it's what I would call the "truth".
 
Spoiler :
the one where in the end we find out it was actually the minotaur all along?
Spoiler :
No, that's the one about Asterion.

This one's a very short story about the King of Babylon and the King of the Arabs, each with their own labyrinth.
 
Spoiler :
the one where in the end we find out it was actually the minotaur all along?

Spoiler :
No, that's the one about Asterion.

This one's a very short story about the King of Babylon and the King of the Arabs, each with their own labyrinth.

Spoiler :
oat0f4.jpg


:)
 
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