A Brennus Game

[krikav]

Intrigued by the celts pointed out as the worst civ, I wanted to try them out abit more, and started a fractal game which got abit interesting.
To T42:


I rolled away a few starts with clam, because I'm no masochist, and this looked like a nice start.

Moved scout NE->SE, perhaps it would have been better to move toward the dry wheat...? Settlement by the lake, grabbing wheat and the both cows would have been good too.
I wanted the PH hammer, and I wanted some river tiles.
Moved scout SE->SW next turn before settling. There was still one ocean tile that could have held fish that would have been ruined though.

Scout went back counter-clockwise, and after revealing the dual fish spot and one more step down the coast I went back to fogbust my backyard.
I was hoping for BFC horses but no luck there.
Going TW next because I feel it's a safe bet. If scouting warrior can secure the horses down south I can go for chariots, and no matter how things turn out, I can still connect my second city and get a few early commerce.

T26 things take a turn to the worse. Warrior was brave and wanted to climb the hill, and a nasty archer is luring. (Ofcourse he dies next turn).
I wanted to risk getting the horses fast so went for settler at size2 (with two power tiles) but now the settler comes abit early so second city have to go north.

I connect the second city and capital grows to size3 on SH which I first planned for failgold.
However, here I make a decision to make a go for it.
My second city wants a borderpop for the fur, and a city for the dual fish needs a monument, and it's very likely that I want the +1 happines in the capital too, so thats 90 hammers for monuments that I could save.

There is just one lone archer down south (And I was hoping saladins scout would luck out and kill it, but he died too), and scout can sacrifice itself to lure it further south if crisis arises, and soon I can just pump warriors out fast.

And I do get it.
Now I'm starting to second guess myself if this was really a good call...
Saladin has all EP on me, so it's likely that this is semi-iso.
He has not founded any of the early religions, although judaism is available I have seldom seen him get that.

North:
Have just finished fishing, I have the furs soon for mayday economy, perhaps I don't need to go pottery right away, would be nice to get BW, with two unforested tiles in BFC one of them could be copper, and I could really need the chopping even though there is ok production already.

South:
I need to stake out something here pronto, no clue how far saladin is. He only met me at T18 so likely I have some time, but I only have 3 cities north so this should be high prio.
The archer is still roaming around, scout will move one tile SW first too see some more but then turn back to help the warriors take up positions.
Getting a boat out to go SE, saladins boat is comming north just now.

 

[krikav]

T56 Fun game!

Spoiler :

After saving cash a few turns, I commit to BW, I have enough commerce with that lake and the beavers.
I also start a worker in both cities, as improving tundra beavers takes alot of time, and I'll have much chopping to do once BW is in.

Barbs are still very calm, nice.

The archer is moving north, I take a stance, 10% fortify.
One warrior dies but that leaves the other to pick of the archer at 89% odds (and he wins!)

A warrior found a forested hill path to follow and dare scout some. Me and Sally seem to have quite abit of room.
Judaism is sitll not founded, and no more wonders are built. No great generals, no great persons.

I find Saladin. This means I should have quite abit of time to settle the south-western jungle in peace.

Woo hoo!

Good that the copper is already connected too! Barbs appear out of nowhere and start to march.
I'll likely lose that mine if I don't sacrifice scout/warrior.

Fun game!
I wonder if I should whip a barracks first, that would ensure me a quick woody2 axe which would be lovely to scout out the jungle.
Agriculture next and then pottery I think, even that dry wheat feels good, I need more food to grow with this high happy-cap.
Perhaps a city 1S of the horse is sensible with insta-monument...? That would get a dry rice and would get that peak under culture for nice fogbusting and should block of saladins interest for the western region for some time.

Should probably settle that double-fish soon too...

 

[krikav]

T71

Spoiler :

Barbs ofcourse bypass the axeman in the hill city, but I dare not kill the warrior because I don't want to gamble that the warrior defending wins against the archer.
Crossing river to kill archer yields 70+% odds but I don't like that either.
Next turn, archer dies against the city and I can safely kill the warrior.

With the roads pillaged, getting to the horse takes alot of time, I'm also starting to feel severe upkeep stress, working coast now to reach pottery in a hurry.
I also settle Gergorvia in a good position to help mature cottages.

Someone oracles christianity, so much for my backup plan to bulb theology and get me and my buddy a religion (and cozy up with theocracy).
Will eek out pottery now and throw down a few and send a settler south to stake out some more land.

 

[krikav]

@BornInCantaloup Thats absolutely true! Getting a city by the cow+horse would have been way better, but not sure at all how I would get there or hold it. I had just lost my only warrior and the scout was busy fogbusting the north.
Settling north was the only alternative imho, what else, wait with the settler to produce a pair of warriors first...?

I think the mistake was done when I went for settler at size2, before getting out another warrior or two.

 

[krikav]

I will likely get a prophet.

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T76 :

Saladin reached writing and I walk in to scout, I see something suspicious right away.

This stack is moving toward me.

Gergorvia will reach 10 culture so I'll get +20% defense there beforehe can hit.
Two axes should be enough to defend against this.
Have the woody axe in the forest too, but probably best to stay there so he doesn't "waltz to my capital"

He is willing to accept Gergovia as a gift, and I'm thinking that it could be an interesting option. That would give me diplo for later, and if I defend I can defend in my capital. I also have a city that I can attack too.
SH and palace will ensure that that city will be pushed severely.

That drops me down to 3 cities and I could probably tech to construction quicker then.

 

[earthy]

If I did gift that to him, I would be tempted to settle 1SE of the wheat and chop out a library to steal the cow back. Without a religion I don't think he would be able to hold onto it. Not sure if that's a good play or not, but such wanton aggression must be punished

 

[AcaMetis]

Sally does have his 4 Library UB, if that makes any difference (it probably doesn't).

 

[Fippy]

I see SH as big mistake, you could have used the gold so much for teching

 

[krikav]

Spoiler T82 :

I decide to try to defend, when he DoW, he dissapears. No clue how this could have happend.
Perhaps because by borders popped the same turn of the DoW?

A scouting warrior is teleported to a worker, steal and delete to get some war success.

With my won time, I finish the settler I had at 83/100, and send it to this hill, abit better place to defend, I'm thinking.

This felt abit light, but I was hoping. He didn't attack though!

This fight is likewise tricky, I should have good odds against the axes, but my injured troops might then be easy targets for his archers.

But two of my axes die at 22% odds. :'(
I'm throwing in the towel here. This will really have convinced him that he is winning.

 

[krikav]

@Fippy
Regarding SH, Yes, that might be correct.
I was probably abit intrigued by the fact that I'm playing celts too.

I see my biggest mistake in that I was abit too reckless with my lone warrior, when I had commited to a size2 settler early on. That I had to resort to settling in my backyard that early with a city that didn't contribute much was painful.

Either should have gone for size3 settler with more warriors, or I should have been more conservative with my warriors movement in that critical moment.

 

[krikav]

No problem! Was a fun short game. Will see if I roll some other nice Brennus game.

 

[Gumbolt]

Short but sweet. This can happen on deity. With 5-6 cities always the risk of an Ai DOW. Sal often does this.

4axes on a hill against 8-9 units. Zero cultural defence and little fortify bonus. 2-1 attackers vs defenders and RNG was against you. I think the barbs weakened you down quite a bit here.

Fact you still posted the game is great. You never really know how these games will go.

 

[drewisfat]

Rough map. Props for sharing the game, especially a loss. I think the big mistakes are Stonehenge and workboat.

I think SH is virtually always a mistake, but if we're looking for conditions where the stars align:
- Myst starter
- Settling on stone
- IND
- CHA
- No barb concerns
- Ok with a GP

All we've got here is CHA and myst starter. I'd want like 5/6. The big issue with SH is to build it early enough to actually get it you need to greatly reduce warriors, making you very susceptible to barbs. Great Wall is fine because it covers this issue, unlike SH. And you get the best GP to boot. Here you were a lucky duck in that copper spawned underneath your second city. And even so, you lost a mine to barbs. If copper had spawned anywhere else requiring a mine+road, or just not in your territory, would have been disastrous. Either warrior spam or grabbing the horses for an early chariot would have been safer, both for the barbs and for apparently being stuck on a 2 person continent where there's no WHEOOHRN warning. Also, the one forward barb you did have was scouting a coastline you had no chance of settling, not defensively spawn busting which should definitely take priority especially since you're gambling on barbs with early SH.

Workboat confuses me. You don't start with fishing and didn't have seafood. Teching something not immediately helpful and dumping another 30 hammers into a wb when you're already being risky with SH is asking for trouble. And I don't see the benefit. You've already met Sally so this isn't a situation where you're trying to determine if you're isoed or semi-isoed.

 

[krikav]

Thank you alot for your feedback @drewisfat !

You are right that copper was lucky with copper, however I did have good production in the capital so could if I wanted just spam out warriors, costly but doable.
I did lose the mine, but that was mainly because I prioritized getting a barracks out first, axe could have been there in time to save the mine. I wanted barracks to get a woody2 axe, and the mine was wearing out it's use too as I thought it was time to instead grow and work cottages.
So, it was a funny idea and likely a bad one.
A riverside grassland mine is a superb tile and I wouldn't have wanted it pillaged and at that stage of the game rebuilding the mine has opportunity cost in chopping so 25 hammers into the wind. Was a woody2 axe earlier worth that? Most likely not!



If I dare to speculate on how I thougth regarding the workboat (which might well be a mistake!)
I had a nice city which required borderpop for fishes, and fishing is cheap and makes pottery cheaper.
I also gain the lake.
It's safe to scout with a boat, no risk of losing it at this stage.
And once OB is in, sailing is an option for easy traderoutes.
This was likewise probably a bad idea.
Since I had the wheel, and the furs, most of my commerce problems was already taken care of, and getting BW quicker should probably have been prioritized.

 

[krikav]

Thanks for that @BornInCantaloup
When trying to achieve multiple goals at the same time (even if it's good goals) one can be streching things too far.
Could be that there was just too many tiny things that added up.
With just one more axe in the city (or better RNG) things could have turned out differently.

Your choice of the decisive wrong move was when I decided to settle north I guess...?
And after mining, that I went fish->pot instead of shooting straight for BW?
That would have left me with only TW as a economic saviour though, (no furs, no lake).

 

[Snowbird]

And after mining, that I went fish->pot instead of shooting straight for BW?
That would have left me with only TW as a economic saviour though, (no furs, no lake).

I thought Stonehenge was the savior, no? You can chop into it if economy calls and it is not built by the time BW comes in.

If you build henge instead of warriors and put yourself in some hole hammer-wise (for certain reasons sure), then I don't think it is good idea to dig the same hole even deeper.

I also don't get why wouldn't you settle second city with the first ring wheat/furs, but I did not bother looking into map/situation to deep (no agriculture probably, but tundra camp would make some commerce)

 

[krikav]

I thought Stonehenge was the savior, no? You can chop into it if economy calls and it is not built by the time BW comes in.

If you build henge instead of warriors and put yourself in some hole hammer-wise (for certain reasons sure), then I don't think it is good idea to dig the same hole even deeper.

I also don't get why wouldn't you settle second city with the first ring wheat/furs, but I did not bother looking into map/situation to deep (no agriculture probably, but tundra camp would make some commerce)

Yes, but BiC advocated finishing henge, so no economy from that venture in his line of reasoning. But ofcourse you are right, if you go BW at that stage you can save economy with henge.

Second city w/o wheat furs, because no agriculture at that stage, and I wanted to share the green cow, settle the city sooner (and spend less turns roading) and also keep a naked hill in first ring.
There was also a mysterious unforested grassland tile that I suspected might have copper that would be out of reach of any city if I settled any other way.
And to top that off, I was short on workerturns, getting the cow right away ment the city could at least do something.

 

[krikav]

That looks better than my playthrough @BornInCantaloup