A Democracy game?
- Thread starter TheDuckOfFlanders
- Start date
- Status
Of course everyone votes! (Except on what version of Civ we play. The cabinet is voting on that as we speak.)
Check out my 3rd post on the first page. That sets forth all the rules. And I'll add you to the list!
Check out my 3rd post on the first page. That sets forth all the rules. And I'll add you to the list!
spycatcher34
Emperor
Roger on the proveince. Right on governer thing ill do in a min.
I'll definatly add this in.
K
knowltok
Guest
This is great! We get to create a nation and a government, and we don't have to throw any tea in the ocean! Woohoo!!
*** <-- Remember, this means I am 'in character'
I know this is is not the purvue of the City Management Ministry, but as a concerned citizen I would like to explore our policies regarding emmigration and immigration. We have a limit of 50 citizens in our fair nation, but what will our process be for granting new citizenship to replace our fallen comrades? The benefits of our nation will be many, due in large part to the wise and just rule of our democratically elected leaders. Many are those living in other parts of our Lord Thunderfall's great world that will seek entry into our fair realm. What shall we do noble citizens, with the surplus of applicants that is sure to deluge us?
On a related note, I believe that rules governing the responsibilities of citizenship should be created. Our citizens are busy building the nation to be sure, but our government is one that requires citizen involvment to function properly. Our citizens should not be allowed to ignore their duties overlong.
*** <-- Remember, this means I am 'in character'
I know this is is not the purvue of the City Management Ministry, but as a concerned citizen I would like to explore our policies regarding emmigration and immigration. We have a limit of 50 citizens in our fair nation, but what will our process be for granting new citizenship to replace our fallen comrades? The benefits of our nation will be many, due in large part to the wise and just rule of our democratically elected leaders. Many are those living in other parts of our Lord Thunderfall's great world that will seek entry into our fair realm. What shall we do noble citizens, with the surplus of applicants that is sure to deluge us?
On a related note, I believe that rules governing the responsibilities of citizenship should be created. Our citizens are busy building the nation to be sure, but our government is one that requires citizen involvment to function properly. Our citizens should not be allowed to ignore their duties overlong.
K
knowltok
Guest
Along the lines of Governors, maybe we should have military districts. Maybe a distinction between army and navy. Potentialy we could have generals and admirals.
Then again, this may be getting too complex.
Then again, this may be getting too complex.
spycatcher34
Emperor
Right then, with the governor system.
*Offices and elections*
When a new city is created citizens will have the option to move there. After an initial (say 3 turns) a mayor will be elected by the citizens of that city. During the first three turns we will have common elections to determine the first item to build. (More than likely a defensive unit). All mayors report to their governor. Elections are held every 34 turns
{Periodically provinces should be redrawn to include and or balance the cities under a particular governors control}
Proveniences will be handled in a slightly different manner. The city planning director will appoint two to four candidates to run. The candidates must reside in that province The people of that region will then vote. The governor then can appoint a deputy. The governors will report to the director or deputy. Elections are held every 30 turns with the directors.
*Powers of officials*
These people will have no real power. The real purpose of these people is to watch for any problems or things that need to be mentioned.
Mayors will have control on worker allocation. It is the mayors duty to report starvation up the chain of command.
Governors will survey the militia of his provenice. Making sure it is sufficient and up to date. If the governor feels that more troops are needed in a particular area it is his job to report that.
*Offices and elections*
When a new city is created citizens will have the option to move there. After an initial (say 3 turns) a mayor will be elected by the citizens of that city. During the first three turns we will have common elections to determine the first item to build. (More than likely a defensive unit). All mayors report to their governor. Elections are held every 34 turns
{Periodically provinces should be redrawn to include and or balance the cities under a particular governors control}
Proveniences will be handled in a slightly different manner. The city planning director will appoint two to four candidates to run. The candidates must reside in that province The people of that region will then vote. The governor then can appoint a deputy. The governors will report to the director or deputy. Elections are held every 30 turns with the directors.
*Powers of officials*
These people will have no real power. The real purpose of these people is to watch for any problems or things that need to be mentioned.
Mayors will have control on worker allocation. It is the mayors duty to report starvation up the chain of command.
Governors will survey the militia of his provenice. Making sure it is sufficient and up to date. If the governor feels that more troops are needed in a particular area it is his job to report that.
TheDuckOfFlanders
the fish collecter
Nice idea's Spycatcher34 ;
I wan't to wait for Cornmaster though so that he can get his idea's and views on this.I still wan't the city planner leader to have enough power to decide what nessecary step's have to be taken to make the local goverment's working toward's a improving system that is both constructive for the local city and the whole civ.Kinda like resoving natioly what is decided loccaly.Otherwise ,i can see two city's bikkering on the use of one settler. (and that's cool
) also deciding (if two city's have overlapping tile's) wich city get's wich tile.
Man this will lead to extreme micromanagement. :crazyeyes
I wan't to wait for Cornmaster though so that he can get his idea's and views on this.I still wan't the city planner leader to have enough power to decide what nessecary step's have to be taken to make the local goverment's working toward's a improving system that is both constructive for the local city and the whole civ.Kinda like resoving natioly what is decided loccaly.Otherwise ,i can see two city's bikkering on the use of one settler. (and that's cool
) also deciding (if two city's have overlapping tile's) wich city get's wich tile.Man this will lead to extreme micromanagement. :crazyeyes
TheDuckOfFlanders
the fish collecter
Anouncement of the President______________________________
may i hereby inform you ,my loyal subject's ,that we have been assined to our working place.Please join Us at :
The Diplomacy game forum
youre president: ducky ISodapop
Teh pop in teh can
Wow! That's a great idea! I would like to join if it's not too late. And I don't care if it's a civ2 or civ3 game since I enjoy playing both of them.
Nope...I added you to the list and sent a message to TF to add your permissions for the forum!!
Edit: All set up!!
Edit: All set up!!
Pellaken
The one and only.
NNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I missed it... dident I... do you guys have any IDEA how many ideas I have for a democratic game... and now that the idea stage is over, its MUCH to late... crap...
I havent read the thread yet, but will soon...
oh well... I will share anyways...
1 Emperor, elections every __ Turns {not important} but he can serve AS MANY TERMS AS HE WANTS. why get rid of good people? if the people want them in office, what should we be to force them out of office?
12 man cabinet, or in the early days, High Council. orignially, the KEE Story idea has 3 tri council members, all VERY POWERFULL AND IMPORTANT, and 9 'other' guys. but I will just speil on positions we should have:
-Defence-keeps the army strong
-Tax-makes sure the empire makes as much money as possible
-Luxeries-keeps everyone happy
-Federator-Guy that keeps govoners from fighting with eachother, like
-Forigen-keeps alliances and enemies with forigen dudes
-Wonders-decides what wonders will be made
-Science-pretty clear
-Deputy-2nd in command
-Transportation-builds roads and rails, gets a certain number of workers assigned
-Farming-builds irrigation
-Mining-builds... mines
-Trade-builds... well you can figure it out.
your guyses cabinet is probably better then this one...
then we should have a Senate, with anyone interested. they vote on things, like everything, they can do what the people want, but dont have to. if we have political parties, like the {put the tax rate at 60% party} or the {dont build any trade routes they are useless party} then on issues like defence, these parties members can vote on whatever they want.
the govoners, who decide what squares should be resourced, etc...
those are my ideas now, maybe after I read the thread, I will have more. eathier way, I want to put my nomination forth for being the govoner of a city, which I would hope I can rename to something cool but not unreasonable.
I missed it... dident I... do you guys have any IDEA how many ideas I have for a democratic game... and now that the idea stage is over, its MUCH to late... crap...
I havent read the thread yet, but will soon...
oh well... I will share anyways...
1 Emperor, elections every __ Turns {not important} but he can serve AS MANY TERMS AS HE WANTS. why get rid of good people? if the people want them in office, what should we be to force them out of office?
12 man cabinet, or in the early days, High Council. orignially, the KEE Story idea has 3 tri council members, all VERY POWERFULL AND IMPORTANT, and 9 'other' guys. but I will just speil on positions we should have:
-Defence-keeps the army strong
-Tax-makes sure the empire makes as much money as possible
-Luxeries-keeps everyone happy
-Federator-Guy that keeps govoners from fighting with eachother, like
-Forigen-keeps alliances and enemies with forigen dudes
-Wonders-decides what wonders will be made
-Science-pretty clear
-Deputy-2nd in command
-Transportation-builds roads and rails, gets a certain number of workers assigned
-Farming-builds irrigation
-Mining-builds... mines
-Trade-builds... well you can figure it out.
your guyses cabinet is probably better then this one...
then we should have a Senate, with anyone interested. they vote on things, like everything, they can do what the people want, but dont have to. if we have political parties, like the {put the tax rate at 60% party} or the {dont build any trade routes they are useless party} then on issues like defence, these parties members can vote on whatever they want.
the govoners, who decide what squares should be resourced, etc...
those are my ideas now, maybe after I read the thread, I will have more. eathier way, I want to put my nomination forth for being the govoner of a city, which I would hope I can rename to something cool but not unreasonable.
Judge Dredd
Republicrat
If it is not too late i would like to join...
Added both of you. Once TF updates the permissions you will be able to access the forum.
Continueing the Sign-Up list in the Citizenery thread in the Diplomacy forum.
Continueing the Sign-Up list in the Citizenery thread in the Diplomacy forum.
Pellaken
The one and only.
ATTENTION PLEASE
CornMaster seems to be runing things then? choosing how the cabinet will work, etc...
I would like to propose a different cabinet, and have a vote on which we will accept.
I am going to go write a LONG LONG LONG LONG speil on this, and how it should be administered. please, I beg of you, corn master especially, atleast read it, and perhaps we can mix and match ideas. your cabinet seems to be working, so does your president, but your govenors are failing. I will write a long speil and post it here 12 hours from now.
if there are any new forums created, please post it on this thread, I am bookmarking it.
also, dont dismiss my administrating idea before you read it, it may be, in the end, exactley what you already have.
CornMaster seems to be runing things then? choosing how the cabinet will work, etc...
I would like to propose a different cabinet, and have a vote on which we will accept.
I am going to go write a LONG LONG LONG LONG speil on this, and how it should be administered. please, I beg of you, corn master especially, atleast read it, and perhaps we can mix and match ideas. your cabinet seems to be working, so does your president, but your govenors are failing. I will write a long speil and post it here 12 hours from now.
if there are any new forums created, please post it on this thread, I am bookmarking it.
also, dont dismiss my administrating idea before you read it, it may be, in the end, exactley what you already have.
They maybe you should read what we already have.
But in reality, I'll read your suggestions, but don't expect a lot of adoption or major changes. I've been spending days explaining this and figuring it out in my head...and we are starting on Monday.
I'm sorry that you missed the beginning of the decussion, but we can't put everything on hold to adopt your ideas. However...I do look forward to reading your ideas!!
Andu Indorin
Retired Druid
Intriguing concept. I'll volunteer.
You should be able to access the forum tomorrow Andu.
Welcome aboard!!
Welcome aboard!!
amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
I'll join for the heckuva it
Pellaken
The one and only.
Ok, down to work... it took me 30 minutes just to set up for writing this, so its damn good. It'll be long, posts are limited to 15,000 words, I have tried to post something really long before. So if this comes out as 2 or 3 posts, that's why.
Frist off. The cabinet. I would rather play civ III, but since I wont get it will X-Mass, I will use Civ II as an example:
Here are the diffrent things that can be done:
Taxes
Science
Luxuries
Trade
Military
Infrastructure {irrigation, roads, mines}
Forigen
With 7 departments, our cabinet will never have a tie vote. We can have a Vice/Deputy leader, who can eathier sit as a non-voting cabinet member, or what have you...
If we go with CM's 8 idea, the leader should cast the tie breaking vote
We should then have eathier 30-40-50 people in a "senate" of just other people that are 'members'. There should also be a govornor for each city, at first, to be expanded to include a few minor cities. For example. The capital, with 50pop would have a gov, a large city, with 25 would have one, 2 nearby cities, with 15 each would have a govoner, the 8 border cities, with less then 5 people would have a govoner. Etc...
Also, each person should be in the army Generals will command large attacks, like 10 units that are attackin in the south, etc. Each military unit should be assigned an army. For example, the first army, the fifth army, etc. The first should be largest and most strongest. Captains should command smaller groups of units, 2 or 1 or 3, whitn an army. While the defence minister will say "attack the zulus" the general will say "attack thier capital" the capain will say "from the east" on the other hand, the minister or general may be very specific in orders.
And now the bulk of this proposal... the distribution of powers....
First off, we should pick a realistic name, George Washington, Franklin D Roosevelt, for example. I will be Theodore James Tedofsky, but thats not my real name. You CAN pick names like Corn Master, but I would suggest against it.
I also propose that the President/Vice should be Duck of Flanders and Corn Master, I would also call for procedure that Corn Master serve second president, with Duck as Vice.
I like the 21 week term, but am STRONGLY AGIANST, I repeat STRONGLY AGAINST, I repeat STRONGLY AGAINST, I repeat STRONGLY AGAINST term limits... I would be for timed term limits, for example, in NYC. You can serve 2 back to back terms as prez, then you cannot be Prez or Vice in the next election, but after that you can be Prez again for 2 terms, etc. If 2 people, like Corn and Duck switch then things will be all cool, and you can do that, so long as you get elected but limiting people to terms, is a horrible idea. This way, you ensure the best president will never serve, cause if someone is good enough, you will want him as prez forever.
The Vice should run in a similar way to USA elections. He will should be tied to the prez, instead of being runner up. We also need run-off elections, to ensure the prez gets 50%+1 of the vote. I can send a link to a very long run-off election system I posted on the form back in the days of Weimar. I'll edit this link in right here * *
Each minister and govoner will have certain powers, but we must discuss the division of these powers.
Will the prez decide whats build in a city? The minister involved? The govoner? Or the people?
Here's how I think it should be done:
The peopulace will vote and make its views clear on what they think should be done. They will vote, etc, and this will all be made public {raise taxes, build libaries, devlop and build rails}
The senate 'members' will then vote themselvs on what they think should be done, but be a little more finite {raise taxes to 60%, build libaries in cities that will have science grow by more then 5, devlop, and build rails, connect ____ to ____ with ____}
The govoner effected will then express what he thinks should be done in his city, and can make a direct request {I wanna build a marketplace} the minister then gives it his opinion to his catagory, tax minister will say {build markeplaces in ____ and ____ and ___} all of this is then handed to the prez and his vice. Who makes the final decision
There can be things that the senate can decide otherwise. They may decide that the govoner can have "govoners perrogitive" once a week, and therefore build 1 thing he wants. The senate should really get to make decieisions on the distribution of powers. Its really easy for the prez to dictator the nation for the first 21 turns, then for the cabinet to oligarchy it for the next 210 turns, but after that, we have a large thribing empire that requires more time then we may have, and so powers should slowly shift from the top outward.
Also, wonders... we should have senate votes on them, and the minister responsible should then submit 1 or 2 suggestions as to where to build it, and how 'hard'. When I say a 'hard' build, which I do often, I mean this. If I "NEED" a wonder, I set taxes to its highest possible mark, then build the wonder in the city with the most production possible, I then sell all things I can do without, and buy the wonder as soon as possible. I often do this for leo's.
*Also, the senate can remove any cabinet minister with 2/3rds vote at any time.
*All people that wanna vote, the populace, should vote for prez, and cabinet positions
*Everyone should be a general or captain in addition to thier job, except cabinet persons
*Term limits are bad, but people should eventually "die" like after 210 turns. After they "die" they are removed from the 'members' and cannot sit on the senate, as a general/captain, or in the cabinet or as prez. This would be like term limits, but allow for more fun time.
*After each election, a vote should be held in the senate as to weather any event should be noteworthy. Like a captains brilliant 3 unit siege on a well defended capital that caused a schism. The name of the person should then go down in history "Napoleon" or "Peter the Great"
other reasons can be not only good, but bad. For example, if a president takes the naiton from a superpower to ruin, he can be "Ivan the terrible"
*Coups should be possible, but limited. A secret vote should be held, through PM, by thundy or another non-partisan person, and then certain actions can be done against the leaders wishes. If the senate has decided the leader will decide where marketplaces are build, and he says none on NYC, but the govoner and tax minister build one anyways...
*if we get alot of members, we should have different nations. I would like to command one, as I do have a government system worked out. We can then play 3 player game or something
if anoyne really loves this idea, let me yell at you, cause I BROUGHT UP A SOMEwhat.. kinda... similar idea. I want to create a totally new game, like one you cna go the stores and buy, thats alot like this. Where people take part, and run empires... I can send the link to that thread as well, I think it was in the weimar era, I'll post the link here in edit * *
if yoiu guys really like this idea, we cna make a practical game idea, and submit it to a real company for devlopment... can anyone say firaxis...
edit:
well, I tried to post in the new forum, it wont work. thanx for including me as a 'member'
if you get member status for me PM me
Frist off. The cabinet. I would rather play civ III, but since I wont get it will X-Mass, I will use Civ II as an example:
Here are the diffrent things that can be done:
Taxes
Science
Luxuries
Trade
Military
Infrastructure {irrigation, roads, mines}
Forigen
With 7 departments, our cabinet will never have a tie vote. We can have a Vice/Deputy leader, who can eathier sit as a non-voting cabinet member, or what have you...
If we go with CM's 8 idea, the leader should cast the tie breaking vote
We should then have eathier 30-40-50 people in a "senate" of just other people that are 'members'. There should also be a govornor for each city, at first, to be expanded to include a few minor cities. For example. The capital, with 50pop would have a gov, a large city, with 25 would have one, 2 nearby cities, with 15 each would have a govoner, the 8 border cities, with less then 5 people would have a govoner. Etc...
Also, each person should be in the army Generals will command large attacks, like 10 units that are attackin in the south, etc. Each military unit should be assigned an army. For example, the first army, the fifth army, etc. The first should be largest and most strongest. Captains should command smaller groups of units, 2 or 1 or 3, whitn an army. While the defence minister will say "attack the zulus" the general will say "attack thier capital" the capain will say "from the east" on the other hand, the minister or general may be very specific in orders.
And now the bulk of this proposal... the distribution of powers....
First off, we should pick a realistic name, George Washington, Franklin D Roosevelt, for example. I will be Theodore James Tedofsky, but thats not my real name. You CAN pick names like Corn Master, but I would suggest against it.
I also propose that the President/Vice should be Duck of Flanders and Corn Master, I would also call for procedure that Corn Master serve second president, with Duck as Vice.
I like the 21 week term, but am STRONGLY AGIANST, I repeat STRONGLY AGAINST, I repeat STRONGLY AGAINST, I repeat STRONGLY AGAINST term limits... I would be for timed term limits, for example, in NYC. You can serve 2 back to back terms as prez, then you cannot be Prez or Vice in the next election, but after that you can be Prez again for 2 terms, etc. If 2 people, like Corn and Duck switch then things will be all cool, and you can do that, so long as you get elected but limiting people to terms, is a horrible idea. This way, you ensure the best president will never serve, cause if someone is good enough, you will want him as prez forever.
The Vice should run in a similar way to USA elections. He will should be tied to the prez, instead of being runner up. We also need run-off elections, to ensure the prez gets 50%+1 of the vote. I can send a link to a very long run-off election system I posted on the form back in the days of Weimar. I'll edit this link in right here * *
Each minister and govoner will have certain powers, but we must discuss the division of these powers.
Will the prez decide whats build in a city? The minister involved? The govoner? Or the people?
Here's how I think it should be done:
The peopulace will vote and make its views clear on what they think should be done. They will vote, etc, and this will all be made public {raise taxes, build libaries, devlop and build rails}
The senate 'members' will then vote themselvs on what they think should be done, but be a little more finite {raise taxes to 60%, build libaries in cities that will have science grow by more then 5, devlop, and build rails, connect ____ to ____ with ____}
The govoner effected will then express what he thinks should be done in his city, and can make a direct request {I wanna build a marketplace} the minister then gives it his opinion to his catagory, tax minister will say {build markeplaces in ____ and ____ and ___} all of this is then handed to the prez and his vice. Who makes the final decision
There can be things that the senate can decide otherwise. They may decide that the govoner can have "govoners perrogitive" once a week, and therefore build 1 thing he wants. The senate should really get to make decieisions on the distribution of powers. Its really easy for the prez to dictator the nation for the first 21 turns, then for the cabinet to oligarchy it for the next 210 turns, but after that, we have a large thribing empire that requires more time then we may have, and so powers should slowly shift from the top outward.
Also, wonders... we should have senate votes on them, and the minister responsible should then submit 1 or 2 suggestions as to where to build it, and how 'hard'. When I say a 'hard' build, which I do often, I mean this. If I "NEED" a wonder, I set taxes to its highest possible mark, then build the wonder in the city with the most production possible, I then sell all things I can do without, and buy the wonder as soon as possible. I often do this for leo's.
*Also, the senate can remove any cabinet minister with 2/3rds vote at any time.
*All people that wanna vote, the populace, should vote for prez, and cabinet positions
*Everyone should be a general or captain in addition to thier job, except cabinet persons
*Term limits are bad, but people should eventually "die" like after 210 turns. After they "die" they are removed from the 'members' and cannot sit on the senate, as a general/captain, or in the cabinet or as prez. This would be like term limits, but allow for more fun time.
*After each election, a vote should be held in the senate as to weather any event should be noteworthy. Like a captains brilliant 3 unit siege on a well defended capital that caused a schism. The name of the person should then go down in history "Napoleon" or "Peter the Great"
other reasons can be not only good, but bad. For example, if a president takes the naiton from a superpower to ruin, he can be "Ivan the terrible"
*Coups should be possible, but limited. A secret vote should be held, through PM, by thundy or another non-partisan person, and then certain actions can be done against the leaders wishes. If the senate has decided the leader will decide where marketplaces are build, and he says none on NYC, but the govoner and tax minister build one anyways...
*if we get alot of members, we should have different nations. I would like to command one, as I do have a government system worked out. We can then play 3 player game or something
if anoyne really loves this idea, let me yell at you, cause I BROUGHT UP A SOMEwhat.. kinda... similar idea. I want to create a totally new game, like one you cna go the stores and buy, thats alot like this. Where people take part, and run empires... I can send the link to that thread as well, I think it was in the weimar era, I'll post the link here in edit * *
if yoiu guys really like this idea, we cna make a practical game idea, and submit it to a real company for devlopment... can anyone say firaxis...
edit:
well, I tried to post in the new forum, it wont work. thanx for including me as a 'member'
if you get member status for me PM me
Pellaken
The one and only.
I proposed democratic votes once... and I was threathend to be banned.
I proposed a sort of usefull democratic vote, like a game, and the thread was taken as a joke and moved to the joke forum...
I once proposed a game idea where everyone has a say... no one replied to it
I once tried to have fun, and I was told, in not so many words, that I couldent
do what you want, if you read this thread you'll see how Corn Master's ideas are the only ones that count. I would love to take part in this game, but at the rate its going its a dictatorhip.
I suggested many of the same ideas you currentley have, I honestley though that it was my stupid ideas that you guys have a problem with. appernetley it was me.
So its clear, you dont want me to be in your group of any kind, you dont even want me to post in your forum. so then be it. I dont want to take part in this game, and will do like I was before the annoying ICQ message from Corn Master last night about this game, and ignore this website.
I still remember, when I was in grade 5, that everyone hated me and made fun of me, and no one wanted me in thier group. when it came down to crunch time, they realised the needed me. well I am going to pull out of things now, BEFORE I feel guilty if you need me. I helped them out that time, but you guys can do this game without me, instead of trying to fit me in where you know as well as I do that I dont belong
good day
I proposed a sort of usefull democratic vote, like a game, and the thread was taken as a joke and moved to the joke forum...
I once proposed a game idea where everyone has a say... no one replied to it
I once tried to have fun, and I was told, in not so many words, that I couldent
do what you want, if you read this thread you'll see how Corn Master's ideas are the only ones that count. I would love to take part in this game, but at the rate its going its a dictatorhip.
I suggested many of the same ideas you currentley have, I honestley though that it was my stupid ideas that you guys have a problem with. appernetley it was me.
So its clear, you dont want me to be in your group of any kind, you dont even want me to post in your forum. so then be it. I dont want to take part in this game, and will do like I was before the annoying ICQ message from Corn Master last night about this game, and ignore this website.
I still remember, when I was in grade 5, that everyone hated me and made fun of me, and no one wanted me in thier group. when it came down to crunch time, they realised the needed me. well I am going to pull out of things now, BEFORE I feel guilty if you need me. I helped them out that time, but you guys can do this game without me, instead of trying to fit me in where you know as well as I do that I dont belong
good day
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