Discussion in 'Gameplay Guides' started by Fresol, Jul 1, 2015.
@Autumn Leaf Can one win conquest victory as Greece with disabled Harrapa?
IDK - I had a couple of early Conquest victories in RFC but none yet in DoC. I haven't been playing DoC very long and this was the first Greek game where I flipped more than one Huluganni at the spawn, so it's also the first DoC game where I've tried to kill off the Chinese rather than just pillage their improvements to slow them down.
Funny thing is, I lost my savefile and had to start the game over using a backup from Turn 152 (Turn 50 in normal games). I clearly remember killing China on Turn 172 last time, but on this replay I couldn't even get my Hulus to China by then! I made about the same time getting across Asia, in fact a couple of turns faster since I didn't waste time manouvering west of Afrosiab to get a tribal village (this time I knew the village was there and I took it on the fly as I went by), but it's Turn 179 and my Hulugannis only just pulled up outside Chang'an. Maybe I razed Chang'an on Turn 182 last time, not 172, which would explain why I had such a massive city razing penalty when I checked my Stability. Fortunately Chang'an still has only one Warrior defending it. (I saw a Warrior who was possibly the one on the forested hill last time, heading north into the desert as I reached the border this time.)
This replay is already different in other ways. Last time round, the Harappan city Rehman Dheri had gone Independent and I gained some booty by razing it with the Hoplite who found it. This time Rehman Dheri is fine. However, the replay has reminded me that India has already spawned, so even if there was no Harappa, I would have to destroy India too.
Hold my beer - gonna fork the game, use WB to kill Harappa and India in the forked copy, and try for the early Conquest. I've got about 20 turns to do it in before Phoenicia spawns.
EDIT: The answer is yes and no. It's not enough to wipe out the major Civs, you also have to take down at least all the Independent cities too (there were no Barb owned cities at this point in this game so that part is unclear). Once you own all the cities in the world you get the Conquest.
If you exploit Greece's UP to farm Great People and hold a perpetual golden age? You just need to make sure all your food cities have beuildings to farm the great people and focus farming during the golden ages. Maybe rush the Mausoleum before beginning the very first golden age. I think Yutien had done it before.
This playthrough of Greece (DoC v.1.15, Monarch, Normal Speed) is based on a China flip.
You heard it right! If you play Greece in 1.15, China will invariably out-tech you, hard, regardless of your difficulty level. So, instead of failing UHV goal 1, you can start the 3000 scenario as China and totally ruin them.
I did this by moving the Chinese starting settler just a little to the west, and collected a few goodie huts on the way through Asia. By the time the curious Chinese settlers reached their destination, they had already collected 44 gold and 2 warriors as an escort. They then settled Tianjin at a funny crossing place between two landmasses and two oceans, at a good spot with much fish. Then, they built another archer, and were never (ever!) heard of again. Really mysterious.
Spoiler The Chinese are vanishing... :
Note: To simulate the luck that other players reported with regards to the two Huluganni flipping: I had played Greece before, even with a Huluganni flip, but it was not in this China run. I chose to use world builder and add one such Huluganni (I also could have replayed the game reaaally often, you know). So I moved two Hittite Hulluganni from Central Anatolia to the Ionian Coast. Also, I moved the Greece starting galley into the Isthmus of Corinth (1W of the starting position). After the autoplay of the first Greece round (t50, they founded Athenai) and I could take over, I corrected the Hulluganni positions again (I still got only 1 of 2) and also the settlers position from the boat. (If I had started with the galley in the Isthmus, then sailed three tiles to the northwest, I could have moved the settler to Epidamnos. Which I settled next turn.) To summarize: I used world builder to (partly) correct the stupid autoplay so that the important first move and a lucky inheritance of a Hulluganni went into my gameplay. Otherwise, I changed nothing. If you consider it cheating, don't follow that precedent.
So, founding order: Athenai (AI SiP) and Epidamnos. That same turn 51, I also changed civics to Despotism and Redistribution. In turn 52, Tianjin flipped, with two warriors, a scout and two archers. The scout was sent after European huts, the rest of the entire Chinese forces marched to Babylonia. Also, the single Huluganni and three Hoplites were ferried to the Levante coast. The entire army merged at the gates of Babylon, razed Ninua/Ninive in the northeast from there, and then stormed Babilû/Babylon, leaving only the Pyramids and the granary intact. Survivors included the Huluganni and two Hoplites, nobody else. That campaign ended in the early 60ish turns. Two units were ferried back directly to the Egyptian coast. Once there was a barrack (build order: archer, later swordsmen and hoplites) in the queue of Babylon, the remaining Hoplite was also ferried to Egypt, leaving Babylon defenseless for a few turns. Nothing bad happened.
In Egypt, the next campaign was conducted in the late 60ish and entire 70ish turns: There were three cities along the Nile. The northernmost Ineb-Hedj (Memphis) got a raze, increasing my instability. So the southern-most, Abu-Simbel was captured and released into independence a few turns later. [Razing it would have sent my stability rating to hell, causing me to lose Babylon!]. I had left the entire way between Simbel and their capital Niwt-Rst free, allowing them to recapture it. The Egyptians (five archers, one militia) weren't fooled and sat still in their besieged capital. I finally defeated them, when the reinforcements from Greece were ferried over - all three militiamen. Back in my three core cities, one single archer was left, in Babylon another archer was in the making. So it took ~10 turns and careful safeloading until I had Egypt defeated and Niwt-Rst was renamed as Diospolis Megale. They got me the Sphinx, too. Survivors this time, were the Huluganni General and the two elite Hoplites.
But the military aspect was only one part of my early game. Back at home, my workers (two start, three captured, two built) had improved the wine, the marble, the iron and the copper at Epidamnos, connecting them all with roads. These improvements were just finished when I finally conquered Egypt. I had built mostly granaries, work boats, but also barracks, pagan temples and monuments. To maximize whipping effects, I micromanaged build orders every round.
Tech-wise, I had focused on Bloomery (catapulting me into the Classic Era shortly after capturing Babylon) and on Construction (timing this with my building of the Oracle in Athenai, so I could snatch Literature and Concrete, for Collossus in Athenai). Next was Calendar (finished in t84), for Mathematics.
Spoiler So, turn 84, I had the following: :
- Athenai: Palace, Granary, Monument, Oracle, Colossus. Fish/Clam/Marble/Iron/Wine/Wine.
- Epidamnos: Granary, Monument, Olympian Temple, (unfin.) Barracks. Copper/Sheep.
- Tianjin: Granary, Olympian Temple. Fish/Clam/Sheep. Archer.
- Babylon: Barracks, Granary, Monument, Pyramids, Olympian Temple. Marble/Stone/Sheep, mine+cottage. Archer+Hoplite+2 Swordmen
- Diaspolis: Monument, Granary, Sphinx. Gold mine, one farm. (the rest was in complete ruins at that time.). Huluganni General+2 Elite Hoplites.
The deadline for conquering Persia and Phoenicia is turn 119, so I figured it was time to finally build stuff up for at least 20 turns: Settle (rich) Alexandriapolis (Kem Kaisir) in Northern Egypt and (core) Halikarnassos in Ionia, develop population in the home cities as quick as possible to maintain a positive expansion balance, grow the core cities big and fat. Meanwhile, spam cottages in Egypt and Mesopotamia, connect the Egyptian horses, and whip up the armies that will conquer Alexander's Empire.
But everything turned out differently: I never got to settle Alexandria (doing so wouldn't have helped much, anyway, I think).
In turn 92, after a begging-peace treaty ran out, I turned on Phoenicia and conquered Sur (Týros). They marauded the fishing grounds near Athenai, then were willing to make peace in t94 (right before their shock elephants arrived at the Nile... Phew.). With research of Philosophy ongoing, I was preparing the biggest war ever: Persia. Just one look at Shush kept me intimidated.
But luck would have it differently: Shortly after my victory over Phoenicia, Persia was busy leveling Yerushalim (Jerusalem) and the Hittite/Assurite barbarians in Turkey. Gee, thanks, but my military should be able to pick things up... um, right next turn! As he was sitting with a few severely wounded immortals in front of the Persian Qods (Jerusalem), I surprised Cyrus and destroyed his elite army within two turns. My swordsmen and a catapult were stationed at the gates of Shush, so he couldn't lead an attack on Babylon. The war was essentially over, except that I was broke and couldn't HOLD all the cities I wanted. So I camped at Qods, waiting out Cyrus' single militia there, and razed Shush. Cool city, but... nope.
Spoiler Screenshots of the late Persian War :
Spoiler Goal fulfillment: :
Turn 83: Literature done, Mathematics prioritized. Babylonia and Egypt controlled, with Phoenician Assur as a friendly open border territory.
Turn 106: After trading with the romans, I finally had the prereqs for Artemis and Parthenon, building them as quick as possible:
Turn 110: Medicine missing, e.t.a. in Turn 117.
Spoiler Alexander would complain... :
... that I didn't conquer India.
... that I razed way too many cities
... that I didn't found many new cities with his name
But I played a few turns more: the Greece economy is booming, and the stability rate is off the rockets (with 48 / 92, I actually could maintain lots more cities...)
And I don't think all the tourists will complain about the architecture.
Instead of Halikarnassos settle two tiles north as your capital. With wet wheat, sheep, clam and two fish this city spot gets the most out of Redistribution and allows you to spam specialists.
Corinth is much better than Athens; the two extra production on the city tile is a huge boost in the early game and you get an extra fish in the BFC. Don't worry about Alexandria, you want as many food tiles worked by your core cities as possible to maximize your core population.
Corinth gives you six extra water tiles inside your core and only loses one that would be in Athens' BFC and none of your other core cities.
I have recently been contemplating using Athens and adding Sparta later but I think just Corinthos is the best route overall.
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