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A guide to the mayans....

troc

Chieftain
Joined
Jun 28, 2011
Messages
24
Everybody around here says that the mayans are an excellent science civ. I don't really get what's so incredibly awesome about +2 beakers from their pyramid UB. What can you do with the mayans to make them a science powerhouse??

And also, what's the best great person to pop first with your UA? In general, how can I make the mayans really shine??
 
I can imagine some kind of REXing with that + science for trade routes belief and the UB.
 
Everybody around here says that the mayans are an excellent science civ. I don't really get what's so incredibly awesome about +2 beakers from their pyramid UB. What can you do with the mayans to make them a science powerhouse??

And also, what's the best great person to pop first with your UA? In general, how can I make the mayans really shine??

Plus the Great Scientist. It's like a classical era Babylon unique ability plus with more to come.
 
Everybody around here says that the mayans are an excellent science civ. I don't really get what's so incredibly awesome about +2 beakers from their pyramid UB. What can you do with the mayans to make them a science powerhouse??

And also, what's the best great person to pop first with your UA? In general, how can I make the mayans really shine??
The +2 science from the Pyramids is very nice. Early on there aren't many sources of science (which is also why GBR, Barringer Crater, and even Old Faithful can be useful at the start). You have the Library (and NC/GL) but otherwise you have to wait until the University to get more science output (other than natural population growth). So the extra science (which is base science and gets multiplied later on) is helpful. In addition, the Pyramid (as Shrine replacement) is pretty cheap too. It's also the only UB that provides extra science.

You can get an early GS with the Long Count (I usually get a GE first and then a GS) which you can plant for a relatively early Academy. In the long run though, the the Mayans actually get less GS' due to their Long Count requiring you to pick different people and essentially making it ridiculously hard to generate Great People the normal way (i.e. running lots of specialists and benefiting from Wonder Great Person points).

Mayans also have a leg up for an early Pantheon/Religion. Since the Pyramid provides twice as much faith as a Shrine, it helps a bit (not as much as Celts/Ethiopia but it's still good). Lets you choose scientific beliefs (Messenger of the Gods, Interfaith Dialogue, or just gold/happiness/growth beliefs that will better manage your empire so you can research techs).
 
And there are religious options that fit in the REX nicely, eg. +2 science from cities connected to capital.

That together with the pyramids should be enough to give you an early science lead.
 
When you're only in the single or double digits to begin with, +2 is pretty significant. If you rush great library, you can hit theology by turn 60 in time for Baktun 4. Baktun 5 and 6 are not long after (due to huge time compression of early years) and thats 3 non-repeating great people of your choice in the span of about 40 turns. Dropping the first one on a scientist for an academy can be a large boost to research - the more you have sooner, the quicker you research better stuff which just compounds it.

With liberty's free settler I get another city out there; 4 faith/turn will put me over 200 at around the same time as a baktun will pop, meaning I can spawn a natural prophet, baktun an engineer, rush hagia with it, and have an enhanced religion right away, usually with my pick of all the traits (depends on ethiopia/celts/lucky ruins popping civs). Also, if you hit Baktun 4 in time, the entire cycle will reset for you after Baktun 10, so if you hit 11, 12, 13 and 14 (2012) you'll be able to pick new ones again.

I can do this pretty consistently, on emperor at least. Despite starting with pottery and having writing fairly quick, the AIs lately seem to pass on popping great library so quick. I doubt I could reach baktun 4 without it, but 5 is still doable.
 
When you're only in the single or double digits to begin with, +2 is pretty significant. If you rush great library, you can hit theology by turn 60 in time for Baktun 4. Baktun 5 and 6 are not long after (due to huge time compression of early years) and thats 3 non-repeating great people of your choice in the span of about 40 turns. Dropping the first one on a scientist for an academy can be a large boost to research - the more you have sooner, the quicker you research better stuff which just compounds it.

With liberty's free settler I get another city out there; 4 faith/turn will put me over 200 at around the same time as a baktun will pop, meaning I can spawn a natural prophet, baktun an engineer, rush hagia with it, and have an enhanced religion right away, usually with my pick of all the traits (depends on ethiopia/celts/lucky ruins popping civs). Also, if you hit Baktun 4 in time, the entire cycle will reset for you after Baktun 10, so if you hit 11, 12, 13 and 14 (2012) you'll be able to pick new ones again.

I can do this pretty consistently, on emperor at least. Despite starting with pottery and having writing fairly quick, the AIs lately seem to pass on popping great library so quick. I doubt I could reach baktun 4 without it, but 5 is still doable.

Many thanks for the good suggestion to optimize my method.
 
Starting with ranged units it a great benefit on immortal. I'm aware archery is cheap, but it's that much more one can focus tile development techs early on. Really, roads don't "do that much" for you very early since trade route income is based on cities' size, especially your capitol, so if you can tolerate beelining around archery/wheel awhile, generally you can get "better stuff sooner".
 
A thing about any REX/ICS strats is that they work better on larger maps, in fact on Huge maps, you can actually gain happiness by placing a new city since cities only cost 1.8 Unhappiness :D

With Mayans this means you can spam settlers like mad, never be unhappy and gain science to the tune of 6:c5science: per new city with Messenger of the Gods + Pyramid. Rapid expansion behind Atlatlists and Composites will protect you from most anything, even Hiawatha and Montezuma. Disclaimer: Trying this on Deity is stupid... you will die very very hard :P
 
Does anyone have a confirmed list of when each baktun ends? Because in my current game I'm very much enjoying my free great people, but I feel that if I was going to take full advantage of the ability, it would be a good idea to plan ahead and be able to say "I'll get my Great Scientist in x more turns" rather than just hit next turn and keep my fingers crossed
 
I think the OP was hoping for a translation, e.g.
AD 2012
AD 1618
AD 1224
AD 820
AD 426
AD 30
etc. did I get those right? Then convert to turn #s
 
Everybody around here says that the mayans are an excellent science civ. I don't really get what's so incredibly awesome about +2 beakers from their pyramid UB. What can you do with the mayans to make them a science powerhouse??

And also, what's the best great person to pop first with your UA? In general, how can I make the mayans really shine??

The answer to the second is the same as the (partial) answer to the first. Maya will get a Great Scientist before anyone but Babylon, which means an early academy and faster progress. But this is just part of the equation. Consider:

1. Firstly the pyramid is not just +2 from a UB. It's +2 from a very cheap UB that can be built in any city you have. Think of it as being the equivalent of Korea at the stage when they get Drama & Poetry (the first specialist building unlockable along the science tech path being the Amphitheater, fast faithing to cathedrals aside) - except that at that point Korea has to take population off duty in each city to get the same bonus the Maya get right at the start of the game.

2. On a related note, +2 science is not +2 science forever and ever. The Maya tech advantage kicks in earlier than Babylon's first GS or Korea's one-off library boost, and much earlier than Korea's or than Babylon's GP production bonus becomes relevant. This means quicker progress through early techs, putting you in a better position to get Education early, grab key Wonders before anyone else, etc. While it's true that the 2-3 very quick GPs make it difficult to get Great Scientists later in the game, because you've reached the relevant techs so much earlier than anyone else you have more time to develop them - your university specialists churn out the points more rapidly, and you're simply ahead of the curve techwise anyway so can afford to slow down a little (but not too much - I got an unpleasant surprise when Bismarck went from 6 techs behind me to tech leader between the Industrial and Modern periods, possibly through faith-buying GPs).

3. Unlike Babylon, Korea or indeed anyone else, the Maya don't need to worry about prioritising archery, on a tech path they otherwise don't need immediately, early in the game. So they're pretty much free to beeline to Theology (which just happens to be on the science tech path) straight away. With civ start bias enabled, the Maya tend to spawn around plantation luxuries, so again can use their standard tech path to improve their early cities as well.

4. Science isn't just about pure beaker production. It requires buildings and, of course, key Wonders. And which is the only civ in the game that gets a Great Engineer as part of its UA? Take a guess. Normally with the Theology beeline you'll get your second or third GP just as you reach Architecture, which means you can rush Porcelain Tower straight away - and that GE effectively turns into a GS. Plus you have a bonus from research agreements.

5. The Pyramid (and UA) have another effect - religion. The Maya will get a Pantheon earlier than most civs, and with a Great Prophet from the UA (usually as second or third GP as I play), can enhance religion early as well. This isn't so important against AIs, which seem to prioritise neither Messenger of the Gods nor Interfaith Dialogue, however your wide Maya empire will love farming science from those trade routes as soon as it can do so, and extra faith production means faster missionary production which means more science from Interfaith Dialogue. At higher difficulty levels, Babylon and Korea may not get any religion at all, let alone first pick, so these bonuses may be closed to them (and neither is likely to get as much out of Messenger of the Gods as the Maya).

Overall, the Maya are a subtly and cleverly-designed science civ - their UA isn't about raw production, it's about securing a strong game position early on. They get to choose early GPs and those most useful for their strategy, they reach key techs earlier in the game than other civs, and the tech-free atlatlist gives them the flexibility to optimise their early tech progression.
 
You have to use your GP's very efficiently obviously, and you won't be using your specialists to just spawn GP's, but rather to keep up your raw resource rates like production, culture, and science, etc. Academy your GS's, use your GE's to hammer out important wonders, and use GA's to spawn golden ages, etc. Just don't count on getting a lot of normal great person spawns, unless you take some patronage hehe and get more from city-states.
 
I think the OP was hoping for a translation, e.g.
AD 2012
AD 1618
AD 1224
AD 820
AD 426
AD 30
etc. did I get those right? Then convert to turn #s

Yes, exactly. Well, if noone else has done it, I suppose that's my little project for the weekend :)
 
I don't really get what's so incredibly awesome about +2 beakers from their pyramid UB. What can you do with the mayans to make them a science powerhouse??

Easy - Set up your science pyramids, then your libraries, your pantheon for cities with trade routes.

Pottery - Writing - calendar - beeline theology asap. ignore the military techs, 5 warriors will be fine for a while. Mayans are incredible, and if you can get a tech-hut or 2, then you will coast to theology fast.

Scientists - settle before the industrial age.
Engineer - save for wonders.
Artist - keep for a golden age. build when your artist points are close or after getting another specialist to keep the artist count down.
Merchant - use for tile improvement pre-currency, take first or second?. Trust me.
Prophet - Religion. Build second or third.
Admiral - Go explore the world! Build first or second.
General - Build a citadel.

And also, what's the best great person to pop first with your UA? In general, how can I make the mayans really shine??

First GP should be a merchant or admiral/general (to NOT slow down GP growth with your "free" GP.)

merchant = 3 trading posts on ONE tile before trading posts enter the game. Admiral/General/Prophet can be a nice first or second. When you just get a GP, and artist count is high, get the artist! scientist can wait until a little later, i usually get mine in the Renaissance and save until i hit industrial so i can "float" to the modern.
 
For those who haven't tried out the Maya yet (Probably only a few :p) If you take a Great General/Great Admiral from a Baktun it does not increase the great person cost in your cities.

What this means is you could theoretically plan (if you got lets say 2 ge/gs points early on) taking one of these great people so you could still get out the free great scientist/great engineer in your city first.
 
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