A Kinder, Gentler Civ...

[Winston Hughes]

I was the sole power on that continent, with plenty of room to expand to the best spots RIGHT before discovery by the other civs, who miraculously had the ability to sail ocean tiles hundreds of years ahead of me

Not miraculous, I'm afraid, but rather entirely predictable. If you're isolated and there are several AI civs together on a continent, then they'll trade their way through the tech-tree faster than you can research through it, even if you have a superior empire. Factor in the early game research sacrificed to get yourself ready for war, and you're likely to end up some distance behind.

One solution is to beeline for Optics (and then Alphabet) asap, and sail off to find them to get in the race.

In a completely isolated start (ie. with no neighbours whatsoever), and unless you've landed a really strong starting island, I reckon its the only way to go. Since you don't have to worry about military until Astronomy is discovered you can concentrate on research (including the appropriate buildings and wonders) to ensure that you get to them before the AI civs get too far along the tree, so that you've got something to trade for the techs you've bypassed. Up to monarch at least (I haven't tried it on higher levels, but it might still work), this is a great way to win a totally peaceful game.

In your case, with the Americans next door, you could have gone either way: war first and wait for them to come, or Optics beeline and war later with the tech advantage you get from trading. I don't know which would have been better, but it sounds like you've done alright for yourself.

Incidentally, one great advantage of isolated starts is that you have a chance to make your diplomatic relations from scratch, which can make planning for a diplomatic victory much easier.

You can survey the relationships on the other continent(s) before deciding who to make friends with, and so avoid the "You traded with my worst enemy" penalties. You can also give in to your friends' demands for assistance in war (or start wars and draw in friendly civs as allies) to gain the "shared military struggle" bonuses without actually having to fight.

And, if you don't manage to bag a religion yourself, you have a good chance of getting your friends' religions spreading in your cities thanks to your Open Borders agreements.

 

[50_dollar_bag]

I've found the best thing to on an isolated start is to try and research up one branch and leave out some marginal and unnecessary techs i.e. military techs. That way when you do make contact there should be a good chance you'll have something to trade. Some good one to go for are where there is a one time benefit for being the first to discover like a religion or a free great person(Philosophy is one of the best) but don't just trade with the first civ you meet wait until you can see what you can trade around, you might end up giving your monopoly away. It's true that if you trade on the first turn you meet a civ you get the +4 fair trade relation bonus, but I think just giving them 40 gold is better (try it next time 10 gold on initial contact = +1 relation point). Not sure if this counts towards 'trading with worst enemy' negative though.

 

[Winston Hughes]

I've found the best thing to on an isolated start is to try and research up one branch and leave out some marginal and unnecessary techs i.e. military techs. That way when you do make contact there should be a good chance you'll have something to trade.

Exactly, and if you take the path to Optics (which goes through several highly expensive techs that the AI often leaves 'til later on) you'll not only have techs to trade, but you can also get into the tech-trading market before the AI have really begun to trade with each other.

If there's more then one AI continent, it's even better. The civs on each continent will probably have different techs to each other, and can't yet trade with civs across the ocean, meaning that you can effectively monopolise the intercontinental tech-trade market, and so pull ahead of the pack.

On a couple of occasions, by building the Pyramids to get GEs to lightbulb MC and Machinery, and by avoiding all techs that didn't help with the beeline, I actually managed to reach the other continents before any of the AI civs had even got Alphabet! Being the only civ able to tech-trade, and having no need to worry about military, a huge tech-lead duly followed.

 

[Snaaty]

when you gift away a tech when meeting another civ for the first time, you get a constant +4 on relations (money should also work, but I haven´t tried so far).

If you simply trade something, the relation will go down with time


concerning higer levels:

from my experience (i´m a peaceful builder), one war is needed on any difficulty higher then monarch to keep up in research with the AI´s if you want to go space race (my favorite victory condition). Sometimes you draw a lucky start on emperor an can do without a war but not very often. On any higher leves (immortal or deity) you always have at least on war (best is late medival) or it´s just impossible to win via space race

 

[Winston Hughes]

when you gift away a tech when meeting another civ for the first time, you get a constant +4 on relations

Really? And it never goes away? Wow, that could come in handy.

(Although I'm not sure I could convince myself to hand over MC or Machinery, even for a permanent +4 bonus)

 

[50_dollar_bag]

when you gift away a tech when meeting another civ for the first time, you get a constant +4 on relations

My problem with gifting away a tech when you meet someone after being isolated is not having much else to trade, or that the tech is too valuable. Unless it's Meditation of course. That's why i usually do the gift 40 gold trick, it can be enough to get relations high enough to trade for maps with some AI and others it can be enough to get them to trade techs. But it does fade away kind of like the same rate that the mutual miltary struggle bonus does.

 

[Snaaty]

My problem with gifting away a tech when you meet someone after being isolated is not having much else to trade, or that the tech is too valuable. Unless it's Meditation of course. That's why i usually do the gift 40 gold trick, it can be enough to get relations high enough to trade for maps with some AI and others it can be enough to get them to trade techs. But it does fade away kind of like the same rate that the mutual miltary struggle bonus does.

When aiming for a peaceful game, the "giveaway-tech-trick" is one of the most important elements. I even give away my most precious techs if I have no choice, because the constant +4 is an easy trick to avoid the WFYABTA (when your relation is pleased, you get some additional trades, when your relation is friendly WFYABTA doesn´t apply at all). So if you can bring 2 civs to friendly, you can tech-trade without any restrictions throughout the whole game, what is much more important then protecting one early tech (at least in my opinion)

 

[aelf]

Friendly civs still FYABTA. It's happening in the current EMC with Napoleon.

Ever since I heard of it, I'm all for removing the AI's upgrade subsidies. Should address the warmonger/builder imbalance pretty well on its own.

 

[Snaaty]

Friendly civs still FYABTA. It's happening in the current EMC with Napoleon.

Really?!? That´s bad then...

But at least there must be a quite big bonus for the overall trades allowed when on friendly because if I remember correct, I usually traded quite a lot (vanilla version, don´t know if this is true for warlords) with other nations on friendly.

Is there any kind of reference tabel available to check the exact numbers out?

 

[Elandal]

I haven't seen any reference tables. I did once find a post that contained the tech trade function, and it clearly started by checking that if your relation is less than friendly, then <proceed with the WFYABTA check> otherwise pass through to check whatever else was to be checked.
I don't remember how old that post was, nor whether it applied to vanilla, warlords, patches or no patches.. But at least at some point the WFYABTA has been completely overriden by Friendly.

The only way to be certain is to get the SDK and check it, but that's not something most people can do.

 

[thelibra]

My previous game pretty much won, and a lot learned, I'm going to attempt Monarch next, and go for a peaceful win. I would love some advice with my plan.

THE PLAN

GOAL: Achieve a Cultural victory on Monarch through peaceful means.

CIV: Incas (Warlords)

WHY?: Because their "Industrious" trait will help me build Wonders twice as fast (stone or marble start for 4x fast). The UB terrace gives +2 culture per turn, which is a fantastic alternative to the otherwise useless monument AND gives the benefit of growth. The UU Quechua will protect me long enough to find either horses or copper. The financial trait not only makes city management easier, but also helps give me an additional edge to researching early religions before anyone else, since I can squeeze more gold out of a place. Starting tech Mysticism gives me the boost I need to be the first to Hinduism (or Buddhism), especially with the financial bonus, and Agriculture is all I really need at first for quick growth.

FIRST RESEARCH: Hinduism, as it's more versatile than Buddhism if I then grab Monotheism soon afterward.

STRATEGY:

TURN 1: Plant myself on 4K BC by the best money/food spot I can. Put my worker on whatever produces Food + CP. Set build for Quechua. Set research for Hinduism. Start exploring in a fat circle around the city with my initial Quechua looking for potential new city spots.

TURN 2-X: Adjust for maximum growth and CP till Hinduism discovered, don't convert, then switch to Mining/Masonry. By now my city should have finished its Quechua, grown to a 3 or 4, and I can research Monotheism while building a settler to score Judaism, convert to Judaism and the Organized Religion civic to raise buildings 25&#37; faster.

Question: Can I change religions AND civics on the same turn so as to minimize my anarchy?

Turn X-early game: Research Copper next, then the route to Pottery. Once my settler is built, send to the nearest copper mine and adjust the population to favor production, and build a terrace, letting the population grow while I research horse. Once horses are visible, and the terrace is built, build a settler and send it to the horse site. With three cities now founded, set the origin city to create a worker, and research the upper track like Alphabet, drama, etc to score Cultural techs. Use the worker to link up the horses so I have some chariots available to fend off Axeman barbs.

At least, that's the plan...

Any ideas, tweaks, etc?