A little help with the AP

[rah]

I always considered the AP kind of broken and played without that option but recently looking to freshen the game up a bit have decided to turn it on. I saw in another thread a tip about doing a cease fire right before a vote to avoid having to defy or go along with a resolution to stop warring. A great idea but since I'm new to it, I'm not familiar with determining timing on votes or any other helpful tips you guys might have. I looked for other threads and didn't see anything.
Greatly appreciate any sharing.

I've also started playing with vassals since I thought that was another busted feature.

 

[Lain]

You are probably looking for this screen.

Spoiler :

"Turns until next vote" is on the left. Note that the counter hits "0" and only on the turn after the vote is called. So "0" would be the best time to do the cease fire thing.

Votes are every 10 turns (normal speed) and an election counts as "vote". So best case scenario, you get 20 turns where no peace resolution can be called.

Switching to the other tab, you can also check if anyone has a majority for an AP victory. And also see how will vote for whom.

 

[rah]

Yeah, that would be what I'm looking for. I assume that doesn't require any mod to see. I'm using Bat.
I've built the AP but haven't been offered the option to offer up a resolution. I thought I was voted in as leader at the time. It's amazing that i've played the game as long as I have without trying this.
Obviously I still have some confusion. This screen looks like it will help considerably.

Any other tricks I might abuse?

 

[Lennier]

It's possible that none of the resolutions are eligible to be voted on, but that's rare. For example, if no AP member is at war with any civilization that doesn't have the AP religion, the "holy war against the heathens" resolution wont come up. Similarly, if there are no wars involving AP members, the "stop the war against [X]" won't come up.

 

[lymond]

I rarely build AP myself unless going directly for a fast AP win (and AP wins can be done quickly on most maps)

I would not turn off the VC or any for that matter. AP can cause some issues sometimes, but as mentioned, they are ways around it. Still, if you have the AP's religion the hammer bonuses are very nice. Definitely spread that religion around if you get it so your vote has more weight - even more if you adopt it.

I believe certain conditions need to exist for some resolution, but can't think what they are specifically. As for diplo victory to appear, all civs must have at least one city with the AP religion.

Couple of tricks if you are pursuing an AP victory specifically?

- Building AP makes you eligible for diplo victory regardless of being in the AP religion
- Being in the AP religion doubles the weight of AP votes you have toward resolutions or victory.
- You can switch to AP religion on turn of the vote. So you have to adopt AP religion to build it but then you can switch out of it for a while to help diplo. Then switch on turn of vote. Other leaders will vote based on the diplo before your switch. Spiritual Leader obviously nice for AP wins (Ramses is Mr. AP) or just save a GP for a well timed Golden Age at the end of AP build.
- Ideally, if going fast AP, you build AP in new non-spread religion - likely the religion you took from Theo. Then spread it to at least one city for every AI. But one trick if early enough is that you can gift a city to any AI with 3 cities. So build settler and mish and settle near you, then gift. Great for fast spread to far away AIs.
- Other way is to play AP victory more passively but letting someone else build it and just boosting your diplo up with others. Help spread the religion to those that don't have it.

In other games, not going for AP specifically, look to conquer AP city asap, if possible. If the AP religion could still cause problems, you might even consider razing that city if not a big loss.

 

[rah]

Thx for the additional hints. Those are the things that I was looking for. I felt like such a noob when I played my first game with it in over a decade.

 

[lymond]

Oh..and another thing I might do if diplo is tight, is that you can start building AP in one religion and then switch to the religion you want to use right before finishing. This may reduce the time you are actually in an unfavorable religion - 5 turns. You have to be in a religion to actually build the AP regardless.

 

[Archon_Wing]

If you're going for the AP and you're a spiritual civ, the most shady thing you can do is switch religion to one that nobody follows right before it completes. (The religions must be in the building cities). This works perfectly if you had a civ that founded more than 1 religion or a civ that founded a religion and ended up following something else since it'll have a decent spread and you will have a monopoly on control even when when you don't follow the AP religion and you generally won't piss anyone off by spending a few turns in it either.

Also remember that in most cases you can just gift missionaries in case you don't want to bother with manually sending them to cities. This is needed if they run theocracy. Of course, people you don't like should only get the bare minimum of the AP religion unless you really have diplomacy cornered and really want to mess them up (force them to defy) in which case spreading it the capital is somewhat funny.

Offshore AP usually is a prime target for destruction simply because you may not get the religion, and even if you did, it's likely that the lovefest will work against you and threaten a victory.

Also, I like to whip temples for the hammer and happiness, though I am not really sure if that's worth it. It does turn some crap cities into better producers though.

 

[lymond]

ap building hammers are definitely worth it if early enough. I'll build the monasteries too early on.

monastery and temple in your city is like have an invisible mine in your city (with a railroad)

 

[Gumbolt]

Ap is also about getting the Ai to pleased.
+4 from gifting tech. +2 from resources. +1-5 Shared civics . The Ai must be in their fav civic too. +1 Share advanced techs with us. +2-5 Shared religion pending f tehy have the shrine. +2 from peace. +2 from voting for x in Ap vote.

Easiest ones to abuse are gifting resources, shared religions, gifting techs and civcs. Liberating cities is another huge one that can get you huge diplo bonuses.

You need 75% of the vote but you can't have more than 75% yourself. All the Ai must have the religion. If you have vassels enabled you could always create a colony.

 

[Archon_Wing]

The coolest thing is theology is great trade bait plus you don't need it once the ap finishes.

 

[rah]

Yeah, trying to also get a taste of when to keep or raze if taking it.
I did screw up the first time I tried it by spreading too much to one civ to the point where they got control. DOH.
It's thing like that when I figured it was time to start a thread and get expert advice.
I'm doing much better with the vassal aspects of the game.
I guess I should have not kept turning off those two options.
(but they just seemed so broken at first)

 

[lymond]

Yeah, trying to also get a taste of when to keep or raze if taking it.

Well, for some perspective, I should state that I rarely ever actually raze the AP. That would only be in dire situations where the AP is just really not working out for you, bu otherwise I either want to take advantage of it or just ignore it. AP is something I never build myself unless going strictly for an AP win. Mostly, I just take advantage of the buildings and just work around the AP voting unless I'm in a position to be the leader anyway.

 

[Archon_Wing]

Yeah, trying to also get a taste of when to keep or raze if taking it.
I did screw up the first time I tried it by spreading too much to one civ to the point where they got control. DOH.
It's thing like that when I figured it was time to start a thread and get expert advice.
I'm doing much better with the vassal aspects of the game.
I guess I should have not kept turning off those two options.
(but they just seemed so broken at first)

It depends on how viable spreading it to you is, and the risk of losing a AP victory. If it has never gotten to you and has spread across the world, I think it's too big of a risk to take; this especially applies after scientific method where it's harder to spread.

On the other hand, if it's merely widespread and there are civs that will probably not get it, it'll probably be safe to have it around if you can enjoy some of the bonuses. But if you can't it goes down!

The best situation is of course, if if you're warmongering and you capture an AP in an obscure religion. This is the greatest boost to power, and I'd never research MM.

 

[rah]

Yeah, I wasn't considering those things. You can bet I will the next time.