A New Dawn Beta Builds

Two other minor edits:
- Free market Civic "allows construction of National Mint" and "Disables construction of National Mint"??
- I have a great merchant and it says, "Construct Central Bank" - Requires Financial Nexus or Investment Bank. Can Not be built in the same city Financial Nexus" -- Huh?
 
I liked the addition of the eaten food symbol to the actual bonus Afforess. Also most of the building changes are very positive in my view. I'm really liking 1.74

Also post 2500.

Edit: Also a small bug involving dynamic city names. I started a game in the Industrial Age, and the first turn, every civ changed their civics. Despite this, every Civ stayed as "Empire of Civ" or "Civ Empire" until they individually changed their civics a second time.
 
first off: i'm responsible for the main building changes. complains should be addresseed to me.

there is a thread solely about the building changes in 1.74. you can find more detail here: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=365126

I don't understand why Universities get -10% hammer. In reality, Universities frequently partner with private industry for research, and create jobs. Seems strange. Further, they educate the masses, which leads to more people qualified for work, which I think would be a net increase in hammers. Also, I don't like that it seems to be limited to only 1 per 6 Libraries. I also don't think they should replace monasteries.
as a physicist in a university i can tell you that physical experiments require quite a lot of construction work. best known examples are maybe the accelerators. furthermore the -10% malus is quite insignificant compared to the usual production boni you get.
however the malus was originally introduced due to several special science buildings the required the university in a special module (see HAND). but as they are no more included the malus can be dropped probably.

the second thing is rather weird. a university should require only 3 libraries not 6. at least that's in my version.

In line with the universities: please streamline the elder council, school of scribes, monasteries, gymnasium, library, university, etc. Right now, it seems like you have to make a bunch of choices around upgrades. This is tedious and confusing. And especially difficult when you have the "hide obsolete/replaced buildings"
there is only one basic choice in this path in the medieval ages: either you go for gymnasia or you go for monasteries. every other choice is only a little slow down since you lose the +15% production bonus when you already upgraded the base building (you can build libraries without a school of scribes of course!).

With the changes to townclock, I don't quite get the differences between city council and townclock now. Before I thought the clock was about productivity, but now if it's about gold/culture...Just seemed strange
cities needed a reduction of production speed. that why unnecessary boni were dropped. the differece between the city council and the town clock is huge! the one gives free specialist while the other grants a small commerce boost. i don't see any similarities. and it's not about gold/culture but about commerce=gold/science/cluture/espionage while gold=production if you hurry. the change is due to represent the economic improvement through an exact time measurement - e.g. for train schedules or working times. however the townclocks future is not yet decided.

I don't understand the Bank causing unhappiness. Banks, historically, have brought stability and improve the QOL for folks. The only times, in history, banks have caused problems were do to an imbalance in government regulation (too much/too little). So I could see the unhappiness being related to civic choices, but not just for building it.
banks lend money even to simple people who don't understand interest. this always caused unhappiness and the feeling of being exploited as they realized that they can't pay their debts. and since during the middle ages only jews were the allowed banking you can guess where all the antisemitism came from in europe - especially among the simpler people.

Change the icon for post office. I didn't realize it was not a stable until recently.
if someone could provide one i'd be happy to include it.

I feel frustrated by arbitrary changes.
the changes are huge but far from being arbitrary. though they are done for balancing reasons, so something not everyone will see directly.

Like the School of Scribes no longer gives research bonuses, but gives bonuses to trade, and the Tannery now requires salt, possibly the single rarest resource in every single game I've ever played since RoM2.8.
i needed to get rid of the excess in commerce and production boni. that is why some buildings became harder to get as i was unable to stop their massive boni otherwise. i will change the tannery as i agree that salt is too rare to be a prerequisite. i guess it will require any animal resource in vicinity instead.

Obsolecence for various buildings are changed about for seemingly no reason.
it was shifted back so you have the chance to upgrade buildings before they become obsolete. many people did complain about buildings becoming obsolate at once causing huge drawbacks in economy and thus people were evading certain techs to keep the bonus longer (e.g. scientific method reduced massively your research as it obsoleted ALL the monasteries and the alchemical labs at once.)

Mines now cause -1 food on plots, and mines and cottages cannot be built in forests without removing them.
yes.

Elder Councils last longer, and generate trade (?)
not trade but commerce which is a general measure for your peoples productivity and economy. as stated above: commerce=gold/science/cluture/espionage while gold=production if you hurry.

I don't know if this is from RoM or AND, but they contribute nothing and only add superficial changes that seem to exist solely for their own sake.
the changes pursue multiple goals. one is the complains about obsoletion at once. the other changes are aimed to reduce the commerce and production excess. if you can produce units in one turn on snail speed the game isn't at snail any more but seems much more to be at the fastest game speed.

- I have a great merchant and it says, "Construct Central Bank" - Requires Financial Nexus or Investment Bank. Can Not be built in the same city Financial Nexus" -- Huh?
strange. a bank should also do as a prerequisite for the central bank. and the financial nexus is a small bug. it shouldn't be listed as a possible prerequisite.
 
there is only one basic choice in this path in the medieval ages: either you go for gymnasia or you go for monasteries. every other choice is only a little slow down since you lose the +15% production bonus when you already upgraded the base building (you can build libraries without a school of scribes of course!).

I think this choice should be governed by civic choices and not as an upgrade route. If you choose "Free Church" (or something like that), you get the gymnasia, if you choose State Church then you get monasteries.

banks lend money even to simple people who don't understand interest. this always caused unhappiness and the feeling of being exploited as they realized that they can't pay their debts. and since during the middle ages only jews were the allowed banking you can guess where all the antisemitism came from in europe - especially among the simpler people.
Strongly disagree. What about all the people who were able to start businesses? Especially important during the middle ages were able to borrow money to buy trade goods and then repay (enabling commerce). Most people, until recently, were much more savvy with understanding interest. Those that weren't tend to end up borrowing from "loan sharks" and the like. The difference between extortion and banking is driven by the Government's role in regulating -- thus I think the unhappiness should be linked to the civic choices.

And Antisemitism didn't start in the middle ages as a result of allowing Jews to bank -- most societies thought it was beneficial to have Jews be the bankers because the Catholic Church forbid people to lend money for interest. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_history#Europe)

i needed to get rid of the excess in commerce and production. that why some buildings became a harder to get as i was unable to stop their massive boni otherwise. ...

the changes pursue multiple goals. one is the complains about obsoletion at once. the other changes are aimed to reduce the commerce and production excess. if you can produce units in one turn on snail speed the game isn't at snail any more but seems much more to be at the fastest game speed.
I think this would be better changed in global definitions than putting a bunch of negative bonuses in or removing other bonuses; I play on epic speed and I've never felt it was going "too fast."

Further, I remember some previous posts where we discussed the AI has a problem with "negative" bonuses and determining what not to build...

And some of the changes are very nice (I don't want to be negative or unappreciative)!
 
What the hell are you people talking about with monasteries and gymnasia? The Hellenic Gymnasia IS the Hellenic monastery equivalent. How did this change?
 
xcrissxcrossx,

You need to have a certain number of cities (greater than 3) to lose your original name.
 
@ Afforess

Is it possible to have Killtech's building upgrades be an installer option? I'm liking some of the changes, but I'm thinking some of the upgrade chains are more complicated than I prefer... I imagine if I just delete the Killtech folder, the game won't run right...
 
It is an installer option: Better RoM. His folder IS self-contained, so you can just opt to delete it.
 
Strongly disagree. What about all the people who were able to start businesses? Especially important during the middle ages were able to borrow money to buy trade goods and then repay (enabling commerce). Most people, until recently, were much more savvy with understanding interest. Those that weren't tend to end up borrowing from "loan sharks" and the like. The difference between extortion and banking is driven by the Government's role in regulating -- thus I think the unhappiness should be linked to the civic choices.

And Antisemitism didn't start in the middle ages as a result of allowing Jews to bank -- most societies thought it was beneficial to have Jews be the bankers because the Catholic Church forbid people to lend money for interest. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_history#Europe)

i do not argue about the importance of jews and banking for the european history and economy. i just say how it was viewed by the simple people. and in the end in the caricature of the fat jewish banker was the most common the nazi propaganda used. and of course the interests were not the only reason for antisemitism - but is strengthened the tendency and firmed the picture of usury as a jewish characteristic. and it still the picture i hear when i go back to my birth country poland (where people are less cautious when talking about jews as the holocaust wasn't their work).

debts always cause more unhappiness then the happiness about a paid back credit.

What the hell are you people talking about with monasteries and gymnasia? The Hellenic Gymnasia IS the Hellenic monastery equivalent. How did this change?
oups... bad naming. the gymnasion is much less a religious building but a first model of a modern school which is why many schools in europe carry this old greek name. gymnasia were not really about religious education so i will need to change name of the greek monastery to simple "hellenistic monastery". problem of course is hellenism never had something like a monasteries.

Is it possible to have Killtech's building upgrades be an installer option? I'm liking some of the changes, but I'm thinking some of the upgrade chains are more complicated than I prefer... I imagine if I just delete the Killtech folder, the game won't run right...

instead of deleting the whole folder you can open it and delete the parts you don't like. the files with the "Ind" prefix contain the construction (e.g. cranes), production (e.g. factory) and processing (e.g. forge) buildings. the banks are among the ComGold files. just make sure not to delete the Ind_CIV4ArtDefines_Building, Com_CIV4ArtDefines_Building and IndProcessing_CIV4BuildingsSchema files if you make a partially delete.
 
On the SVN, in the Trunk, in the example folder. Those are always the most up to date.
 
Just started a game with the latest Beta and while I don't care much for some of the new automated options for units, I do like the automated patrol options but I make sure to have some backup units in case my patrols do something stupid (which they haven't really yet).

I'm using the Aboria mapscript which is interesting to say the least. The AIs are finding religions better. I like the building chains a lot. My only problem right now (and its probably a rather small problem) is that the AI still builds a settler right off the bat which can be quite problematic sometimes for them, especially with raging barbarians enabled but I digress.

I plan on starting a new game sooner or later on a late start so I can get some play time with corporations.
 
My only problem right now (and its probably a rather small problem) is that the AI still builds a settler right off the bat which can be quite problematic sometimes for them, especially with raging barbarians enabled but I digress.

I have already tackled this for the next beta.
 
I have already tackled this for the next beta.

That's great!

Now I just need to find out why my graphic settings keep getting set to the minimum now. :confused:

I'm not sure how the beta would affect that however since every other mod and version of AND I've played never did this.
 
I'm using the Aboria mapscript which is interesting to say the least. The AIs are finding religions better. I like the building chains a lot. My only problem right now (and its probably a rather small problem) is that the AI still builds a settler right off the bat which can be quite problematic sometimes for them, especially with raging barbarians enabled but I digress.

yes, the AI is very eager to build settlers most ineffectively possible: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=9313158#post9313158

and as i played some turns with my ally i realized it sill does a very long list of stupid things... but at least it's not as bad as it was before.

btw Sonereal, i could use your help as i will need some testing grounds for the new civics. i will need to check the maintenance factors for the different organizaion civics primarily. so it would be nice if you could provide me some of your saves of advanced games. for compatibility issues i'd need them as world builder saves.
 
btw Sonereal, i could use your help as i will need some testing grounds for the new civics. i will need to check the maintenance factors for the different organizaion civics primarily. so it would be nice if you could provide me some of your saves of advanced games. for compatibility issues i'd need them as world builder saves.

Using the beta? Alrighty. I've been playing on Eternity but given how fast new versions of the beta are coming out, I'm going to play on maybe marathon just to get the ball rolling.

In other words, give me to Monday. ;)
 
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