A New Dawn: Resurected!

[JosEPh_II]

Fine, just super busy. I'm optimistic about jtanner's ability to continue to run things in my absence.

I don't regularly check this site, but if you need to get ahold of me, use afforess[at]gmail[at]com, which I check regularly.

Will this be your Senior year? And did you Intern over the summer? Even an "occasional" post is great to see!

@jt and Team,
I have confidence you can streamline and tweak AND2.0 into a leaner meaner mod.
And No this does Not need to become another C2C. It's AND!

JosEPh

 

[Afforess]

Who needs AND when you have Caveman2Cosmos?

Some of us think that less is more.

Will this be your Senior year? And did you Intern over the summer? Even an "occasional" post is great to see!

@jt and Team,
I have confidence you can streamline and tweak AND2.0 into a leaner meaner mod.
And No this does Not need to become another C2C. It's AND!

JosEPh

Yes, I am working for IBM right now and will be working for them until this December. Then I have 1 year to finish, so will graduate in December 2013.

@jtanner28

I've upgraded you to project admin on Sourceforge so you can add more team members and manage it.

 

[jtanner28]

Thanks Afforess! We're still trying to organize a team, so that will help out immensely.

 

[flitz]

As I wrote jtanner in PM, I would like to join as well.

I could help out with hting concerned with xml, python, c++, but I am not exceptionally familiar with the code base of Civ4, yet.
Due to work, I would be able to spend maybe 2 hours a day on this project but that sounds reasonable to me .

 

[JosEPh_II]

Some of us think that less is more.



Yes, I am working for IBM right now and will be working for them until this December. Then I have 1 year to finish, so will graduate in December 2013.

@jtanner28

I've upgraded you to project admin on Sourceforge so you can add more team members and manage it.

IBM that's great! Please don't be a total stranger, stop by to check us/this out from time to time okay? Always good to see you post.

@jtanner28,
Later this month I'll have more time to help test and give feedback, I'm retiring in 2 weeks. So you'll see me hanging around and buggin' you like I did Afforess.

Edit: jt have you made a post in the Modpack forum under RoM AND that it's back in development? Best place to advertise your efforts is there, more exposure.

JosEPh

 

[stolenrays]

This is nice to see. I know one thing I'd like to see as time permits is some standalone releases of afforess's many tweaks. AND is a treasure trove of sdk tweaks.

 

[jtanner28]

@flitz
We're just getting off the ground here and still sorting things out. If you think this is the direction that AND should be going then we'd certainly love the help. I'll put you on the team page. I'll also be doling out the SVN access very soon. I think all the main folks should have access. One thing I'd like to do first is send out a team message to try to establish a definite direction. Any thoughts on this matter would be highly appreciated. We're probably going to end up with three or four coders at least two official beta testers before it's all over. I'd like each team member's thoughts on how their strengths could be best applied. AI, civics, balancing, etc.

@Joseph
Thanks for putting us back out there. I had thought about asking The_J to re-list AND as active, but just hadn't gotten to it yet. And feel free to bug us all you want! The more testing we get done, the more bugs are squished.

@stolenrays
I had thought about possibly making a set of modcomp releases from the AND code. There's lots of unique code in there that would work well as modcomps. It won't be the primary focus right now, but it's definately on the agenda for later.

One thing I will say about taking over the management of AND: my inbox has had a huge influx of messages. I'm backed up already! LOL. If I don't respond for a bit just be patient. I'm getting to them as soon as I can.

 

[stolenrays]

Thanks for the consideration Tanner. The one thing I might ask for help on though is on trying to get the Nuke spy mission to work. I'm currently porting the AND added spy missions over to super spies.

 

[gdambrauskas]

anyone knows how to approach OOS error debugging? v2 is giving me hell in mp games and OOS log is just a list of things that each player has.

 

[Isabelxxx]

OOS log is just a list of things that each player has.

In fact you have to look through that list and see when an event that should be the same in both lists have a different random number (the seed).

For ex. if you have an event in game which changes your gold, it will be saved in the log.
Both logs (yours and the one from the other user) should have that event logged.
The problem comes when the numbers there are different, then the event did something in your PC and other thing totally different in yours.
When you found that seed "Out of Sync", you know where is the problem. You would have to check the event code in this example.

EDIT: There is a multiplayer guide for users & modders in the tutorial sub-forum which really helps everybody to understand how to solve and avoid OOS errors.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=188460&highlight=multiplayer+guide

 

[Talin2009]

Lol... There's one in every crowd.

I'm sure that C2C is a perfectly fine mod. It is after all based on a classic. It's not really my cup of tea however. To me, AND captured just the right essence of what I was looking for in a mod. It just feels right. My goal is to see it finished. I don't intend to continue adding features ad infinitum. My goal is to clean it up, tune it up and polish it to a gleam. No remaining bugs. No crashes. A fully matured feature set. I will be adding a few things here and there. Mostly little stuff. Whatever I feel fits with the theme of the mod.

It's a labor of love. I want to see AND reach its full strategic potential without losing what makes it AND.

Blueblood, would you like to join the team? No modding experience is no problem. We all start somewhere. You said you have C++ experience, right? Have you gotten ahold if the source files and compiled the dll yet?

And 45d38N, how about a spot on the team? We need a real beta tester. Someone who has had lots of experience in the fine art of teasing out subtle balancing issues. It sounds to me like you actually have a system already established.

I'm going to see if flitz wants to join us too. He hunted down the coinage bug and that was the official SVN 571 push that is getting this ball rolling.

If anyone else would like to give it a go, just PM me. If you guys don't want to join, I'll create that recruitment thread. Otherwise, I'd like to keep the team small and tight-knit. Maybe 6 or 7 tops.

Good news.

I wish you the best of luck.

Maybe you will be able to accomplish what Zappara and Afforess couldn't - put out stable version with decent AI code, so it will be a challenge to play.

I currently play C2C, it is a great mod, but i can't say i like or understand direction the mod is going to ... throwing in hundreds of techs, units, buildings ... stuff being added at pace faster than taking out bugs and imbalance ...i don't realize how it is possible to balance it or teach AI how to properly use it all.

I remember my RoM and AND games where i had to struggle to stay alive ...

 

[JosEPh_II]

@Talin,

Have you looked at KROME yet? 1st Stable RoM version 1.03Ext merged with K-Mod 1.35. Has a few small bugs but is definitely challenging. But be warned it has No REVDCM and imho does not need it either.

JosEPh

Edit: @jtanner28,
Those ppl that want SVN access to d/l the mod will need the url for it posted. I'd suggest here in the OP.

 

[jtanner28]

@Talin,

Have you looked at KROME yet? 1st Stable RoM version 1.03Ext merged with K-Mod 1.35. Has a few small bugs but is definitely challenging. But be warned it has No REVDCM and imho does not need it either.

JosEPh

Edit: @jtanner28,
Those ppl that want SVN access to d/l the mod will need the url for it posted. I'd suggest here in the OP.

The SVN is at https://anewdawn.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/anewdawn/Trunk.

I recommend TortoiseSVN.

@Blueblood
How's it going? Did you get the SDK to compile? Ready to tackle some of the big stuff? We need to get together for a battle planning session. I currently have more ideas than talent, but I'm not short on enthusiasm so lets start on something that's doable and move on from there.

By the way, I just got the first version of the new AND NSIS installer working. It's based off an NSIS script I found here at CfC. I just need to break out some of the other options for it. Probably have those done by tomorrow. I'll be posting links for bleeding-edge build installers for anyone who likes to play with matches. Probably a Full and Lite version. The Full one will have everything (Blue Marble, Formations, Extra Leaderheads, Interface colors, etc) as options and will weigh in at about 900 megs. I already have the script working for it. The Lite one will be significantly er.. well... lighter... lol. Not sure how big it's gonna end up being yet. I separated all the Blue Marble stuff out and put it into a new pak file so that it's easy to install/delete. I've just got to cut out the other stuff and add the radio buttons to the installer.

 

[Blueblood]

@Blueblood
How's it going? Did you get the SDK to compile? Ready to tackle some of the big stuff? We need to get together for a battle planning session. I currently have more ideas than talent, but I'm not short on enthusiasm so lets start on something that's doable and move on from there.

Yeah, I got it compiled under the VS2008 IDE, no idea if I did it correctly or not though. It didn't spit out any errors - I guess that's a good sign. My apologies for not replying to your messages - I need to wait some number of hours still before I can use the visitor board and PM functionality. Apparently the restrictions are 5 posts and 5 days registered.

"big stuff" makes me a little worried - I haven't had time to ground myself in any of the details of the SDK yet, what the general structure is, etc. School starts up in a week and I have a few more days of work left before then, so that's been limiting my free time. I'll do what I can, though. I noticed we had someone else on the team who was familiar with all of the SDK stuff but wasn't very good with the language itself - perhaps that's an area I can be of use. Anyway, as you said we'll have to have a one on one to see what would be most appropriate. Hopefully we can start scheduling that as soon as I get my PM capability.

 

[Terradive]

I'd like in on this action if I could. I've been modding off of AND for a while now. I haven't released anything.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Estimable news! ^_^

Who needs AND when you have Caveman2Cosmos?

C2C has a lot of great features, like the rebalanced melee unit progression, expanded religions, further refinement of civics, and a great deal of code tightening to make what is by any standard an immense mod run reasonably well. Some of the advanced features like the new Viewports are hugely impressive and could revolutionize what we think of as possible in the Civ 4 engine.

It also has horrible bloat like dead techs that will be filled in "eventually" (I'm talking about the prehistoric/ancient ones, not the future era ones - fair cop on those), the Sim City-inspired "residential buildings," which do nothing but clog the build queue and don't even make sense in context - what does the city itself represent, if not those buildings? It has completely extraneous units like the Organ Gun, which is one First Strike away from strictly worse than a unit of the same class unlocked at the same tech.

Despite valiant efforts to help the AI, it's also still really, really easy compared to AND.

The C2C team seem to take a very (World) Simulationist approach to their design, and as it does in most games that leaves gameplay as a secondary concern. I prefer a Gamist approach and hope that's what AND 2.0 will take. There's plenty of room for both.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

It also has horrible bloat like dead techs that will be filled in "eventually" (I'm talking about the prehistoric/ancient ones, not the future era ones - fair cop on those)

Except it is different techs that are empty each release as the new way is introduced. The current version empty techs are all to do with moving religion founding onto their own tech to spread the religion founding around, ie not all religions founded by the same player.

, the Sim City-inspired "residential buildings," which do nothing but clog the build queue and don't even make sense in context - what does the city itself represent, if not those buildings?

Yes, one of the things that makes c2C less enjoyable, and they are not even optional, even though they are in a "mod".

It has completely extraneous units like the Organ Gun, which is one First Strike away from strictly worse than a unit of the same class unlocked at the same tech.

I agree here too, but since it is only the artillery line who cares.

 

[MoogleEmpMog]

Except it is different techs that are empty each release as the new way is introduced. The current version empty techs are all to do with moving religion founding onto their own tech to spread the religion founding around, ie not all religions founded by the same player.

I do like that change, but there are still techs like Games and Board Games that are necessary to the tree without giving anything themselves. As it stands they're spacers that make Hunting Tactics and Military Training more expensive.

Hopefully, they'll have promotions or something associated with them in the future, but at the moment they're something I dislike. More to the point, the philosophy behind them - add an incomplete feature and design it through play, rather than keep it off the main fork and only add it when it's ready for at least testing -, while it does bring lots of interesting features in, is ultimately something I don't like.

Mind, C2C is the main version of Civ I play, though, so it's not like I dislike it overall. I'd just like an alternative that took a more conservative approach to feature creep.

Yes, one of the things that makes c2C less enjoyable, and they are not even optional, even though they are in a "mod".

Yeah.

I like the small bonuses from resource-dependent buildings, since they make cities more unique, but the universally-available small bonus buildings generally feel like bloat to me.

I agree here too, but since it is only the artillery line who cares.

Well, the Ribauldequin is actually a really strong unit. I usually end up with more of them than Arquebusiers, since they can function as a field army except against cavalry. It's like a pike and shot army with much bigger shots.

 

[Arkatakor]

It is very encouraging to see this latest development in AND. I like the idea of putting emphasis on AI improvement and performance optimization rather than content adding. May I suggest that for those purposes, that someone gets in touch with Koshling?

I am aware that he had made quite some AI improvements and optimization for AND but he was no longer able to do so as the codebase for the AI of C2C and AND had forked out in different directions rather considerably. It might be an idea though, for a developer to get in touch with him to gather a few pointers as to where in the code one might be able to find solutions to beef up optimization.

 

[jtanner28]

It is very encouraging to see this latest development in AND. I like the idea of putting emphasis on AI improvement and performance optimization rather than content adding. May I suggest that for those purposes, that someone gets in touch with Koshling?

I am aware that he had made quite some AI improvements and optimization for AND but he was no longer able to do so as the codebase for the AI of C2C and AND had forked out in different directions rather considerably. It might be an idea though, for a developer to get in touch with him to gather a few pointers as to where in the code one might be able to find solutions to beef up optimization.

Yep, I do intend to talk to him soon. I'd like to make a "best effort" on clearing up some of the bugs myself though. That's the only way to learn! I intend to do some merging with the C2C sources to try to squish certain bugs and then ask Koshling for help on the ones that are squish-resistant.