A question of Adam and Eve

Mr. Dictator:

I don't think you can separate the "badness" of the eating of the fruit from God's command not to. The taking of the fruit was done out of hubris, a desire to become like God. The eating seemed to open them up to the possibility of sin, which is generally viewed as a bad thing.

Well we are on the verge of creating life, something that Christians believed was only in the power of their God.
It seems that their God has some competition. As the saying goes; Mankind created God in their image. That implies that they can also destroy him.
That's nonsensical. First, because God didn't just create life -- He created the universe. You can begin to talk about humanity beginning to rival God when we create our own stuff to make life out of; until then, we're still relying on God's initial creation. Second, that saying is extra-Biblical and modern, so it's pretty ridiculous to use to interpret a story that's thousands of years old. (Not to mention, it implies nothing of the kind; it's not necessary to the act of creation that you be able to destroy what you have created.)

IIRC Lucifer and his followers fell before God created humanity. So yeah evil was there from the beginning.
That's one (Christian) interpretation, but it's hardly the only one. The Jews originally thought that the snake was just that -- a snake -- and the idea of Lucifer was a later addition or interpolation.
 
Until they ate from the tree, they didn't realize that they should hide their nakedness from the likes of God. There were obviously nefarious motives.
 
If God didn't want Adam and Eve to eat from the Tree of Good and Evil, why place it in the Garden in the first place?
 
Until they ate from the tree, they didn't realize that they should hide their nakedness from the likes of God. There were obviously befarious motives.

what is "befarious". Its not in the dictionary
 
I have also asked this question. Just scroll down for possible answers.
 
Mr. Dictator:

I don't think you can separate the "badness" of the eating of the fruit from God's command not to.

Perhaps not, but how can we be held accountable for not obeying a command when we have no distinction between good and bad?
 
Perhaps not, but how can we be held accountable for not obeying a command when we have no distinction between good and bad?
Good question. ;)

As far as I can tell, the general answer is that this was knowledge of Good and Evil in a broad sense; before this, they had only one law (or rule), which was to obey God, and was something of an inescapable rule. But taking the fruit, they became knowledgeable (and capable of) sinning in a variety of different ways. I'm not sure whether eating the fruit was inherently wrong, but since it was contrary to God's will, it was wrong.
 
Besides the fact that God had commanded Adam and Eve not to eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, why would that be a bad thing to do?

Man was created to serve God. When man became self-aware, the only thing which could separate him from God was his mortality. God had no choice but to cast humanity out from the garden of Eden, lest man challenge his throne.

As for justifying God's actions, I think it's easiest to just say that God is the bad guy in the story, where he is trying to keep man ignorant while the serpent brings enlightenment. Similar to the story of Prometheus bringing humanity fire from the Gods and being punished for it.
 
Also, it seems that gaining knowledge from a plant led to the idea that all plant-based knowledge is deemed as evil in the west.

Could it not have been God's intent that we eat from it? After all, the snake was in the garden, which supposedly couldn't house evil inside, so God allowed the snake to be there as a tempter at the very least it seems.

1) Not really--every other plant in the garden was kosher.

2) Possibly. I believe Mormons take this position (Adam fell so that his descendants would have the opportunity for spiritual progression).
 
1) Not really--every other plant in the garden was kosher.

2) Possibly. I believe Mormons take this position (Adam fell so that his descendants would have the opportunity for spiritual progression).

But that one plant supplied knowledge, and we got a slap on the wrist for eating it. This seems to be the root of the west's opposition to seeking anything other than utilitarian uses for plants. Plus, who talks about the other plants in the garden? They're just scenery in the myth.
 
Oh dear :blush: Im terribly dumb
Well, given that Santa was derived from the Norse god Odin, and that some Christians consider pagan gods to be demonic entities, and that Odin was the ruler of all the Gods... You may just be on to something. ;)
 
That would seem impossible, though. Since God would be the creator of all, he would of course possess far more intimate knowledge than we could imagine.
That is not the only instance of God appearing jealous of man, for instance, Genesis 11:5-7:
But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building. The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."
 
Well we are on the verge of creating life, something that Christians believed was only in the power of their God.
It seems that their God has some competition. As the saying goes; Mankind created God in their image. That implies that they can also destroy him.

So you are saying we can make a life out of pure nothing?

Aimee: That picture is awesome!
 
Well, given that Santa was derived from the Norse god Odin, and that some Christians consider pagan gods to be demonic entities, and that Odin was the ruler of all the Gods... You may just be on to something. ;)

hero-worship-satan-demotivational-poster-1229533035.jpg
 
Also, it seems that gaining knowledge from a plant led to the idea that all plant-based knowledge is deemed as evil in the west.

I´ve actually never heard heard of this - nor do I quite understand it, I must admit; biology is bad?

God was afraid that with knowledge mankind would one day rival his power and surpass it.

.... is almost a literal quote.

Did evil even exist before the snake?

Supposedly God created everything; that would seem to include evil, as indicated by the presence of a Tree of Knowledge (of good and evil, amongst others).

It doesn't matter. The story is an allegorical explanation of why humans are the only animals capable of distinguishing good from evil: we did something bad a long time ago to God and he put the "good & evil" curse on us as a result.

I'm not sure why the details don't really make sense, but I suppose this was probably the best story floating around at the time.. or the most popular one maybe?

According to Plotinus, allegory doesn´t really apply here - though the story is ofcourse a typical example of mythological explanation.

I don't think you can separate the "badness" of the eating of the fruit from God's command not to. The taking of the fruit was done out of hubris, a desire to become like God. The eating seemed to open them up to the possibility of sin, which is generally viewed as a bad thing.

That doesn´t really concur with the story itself though; it was only after the eating, which was a result of seduction (or temptation), that knowledge of good and bad occurred. Like children don´t realize something is bad until they´re told - and then don´t understand why something is bad. Also, ofcourse, an all-knowing God must have foreseen this happening. I must say the whole story makes kind of a naive impression. (Like the author couldn´t come up with anything better.)

That's nonsensical. First, because God didn't just create life -- He created the universe. You can begin to talk about humanity beginning to rival God when we create our own stuff to make life out of; until then, we're still relying on God's initial creation. Second, that saying is extra-Biblical and modern, so it's pretty ridiculous to use to interpret a story that's thousands of years old. (Not to mention, it implies nothing of the kind; it's not necessary to the act of creation that you be able to destroy what you have created.)

Actually it literally says that God "feared" man to become his equal if he should have like knowledge as God. But I´d agree that mankind isn´t "on the verge of" creating life - nowhere near, in fact.

That's one (Christian) interpretation, but it's hardly the only one. The Jews originally thought that the snake was just that -- a snake -- and the idea of Lucifer was a later addition or interpolation.

Yes, why would a snake be anything but a snake? Well, for one it symbolizes temptation; when presented with the apple, man sees no harm (or difference) in eating this fruit or any other.

Man was created to serve God.

That´s not really in Genesis though; as an interpretation it hardly relates to it in fact. All that Genesis says is that God created man and gave man the earth to rule over.

That is not the only instance of God appearing jealous of man, for instance, Genesis 11:5-7:
But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building. The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."

Indeed. God shows instances of negative emotions, such as anger and jealousy. (Not to mention vengefulness.)

...

Anyway, we do have an Ask A Theologian thread and this seems like a perfect subject for it (if indeed it hasn´t been answered).
 
Actually it literally says that God "feared" man to become his equal if he should have like knowledge as God. But I´d agree that mankind isn´t "on the verge of" creating life - nowhere near, in fact.
Do you have an exact source on that little tidbit?
 
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