A question of Adam and Eve

[_random_]

yeah I would be a bit freaked out if a giant fat guy with a beard came falling down my chimney.

That bastard stole my cookies.

 

[Elrohir]

I suggest you reread your Genesis. It´s quite literally in there.

Cheers.

A rather poor dodge. I've read Genesis multiple times, and I don't recall any passage stating anything to that effect. (In Genesis 3:22, God says they have become like Him, and He stops them from living forever, but he never says that they are or could be his equal, or that God "feared" anything at all.) If you're not going to back up your assertions, especially simple ones -- the entire Adam and Even in Eden narrative is two chapters -- then you really shouldn't post any sort of factual assertions at all.

In short: Put up, or shut up. (I hate to get all middle-school on you, but it is what it is.)

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

That bastard stole my cookies.

Now Petty, on the other hand... I wouldn't mind him

To make this post legal: And then he leaves suspicious packages laying around the house!

 

[Traitorfish]

That bastard stole my cookies.

Pfft, you should be glad he condescended to steal them at all, if you leave out the wrong stuff like that. Mince pies and whisky, that's what he's after.

 

[Souron]

Gods evolve. If there's a modern supernatural mythos that unites people in the Anglosphere more than Santa Claus does, it'd surprise me. He's the perfect deification of western consumerism. The spirit of going shopping and buying stuff absolutely defines his 2 week holidays in ways that the core message of Jesus Christ can't even hope to compete with.

He's really kind of an updated, nicer version of Mammon.

Not really. That may be what Christmas is about these days, but it's not what the story of Santa is about.

Santa is more of a analog for a Puritan God the Judge, who reward those who are nice, and sends coal to the wicked. But he's a nice guy because he's under no obligation to give gifts.

 

[Murky]

Biblical philosophers have been debating the meaning of the story of Adam and Eve for a long time. In my humble opinion, it's like debating The Lord of The Rings and similar myths. It's all just made up by someone at some point and has no barring on real life, the Divine or anything of real importance.

You're just debating about a bunch of hooey.

 

[Traitorfish]

Santa is more of a analog for a Puritan God the Judge, who reward those who are nice, and sends coal to the wicked. But he's a nice guy because he's under no obligation to give gifts.

Actually, it was an old pagan thing that got hammered into a vaguely Christian framework. Supposedly, it started as Odin (who survived as a folkloric figure even after Germanic paganism was suppressed) taking breaks while out on the Wild Hunt, and rewarding those who offered hospitality through refreshments for him and his horse (tellingly, St Nicholas carries a staff, a more Christian counterpart to Odin's spear, and also rides a white horse), hospitality and gift-giving both being customs of paramount importance among the Germanic peoples. And then, of course, we've got the English character of Father Christmas (a cousin, and once a distinct figure), who was practically animistic in his relation to the holiday, as much Christmas-incarnate as a mere mascot; hardly a Christian concept!

 

[_random_]

Biblical philosophers have been debating the meaning of the story of Adam and Eve for a long time. In my humble opinion, it's like debating The Lord of The Rings and similar myths. It's all just made up by someone at some point and has no barring on real life, the Divine or anything of real importance.

You're just debating about a bunch of hooey.

To quote the author of Lord of the Rings, "myths are not lies." Even though it's pretty safe to assume that many of the events described in Genesis didn't really happen, that doesn't mean that they have no bearing on our lives or aren't true in some deeper sense. After all, myth was the language of ancient people, so it's not too hard to believe that God could use that language to convey truth to them.

 

[Murky]

To quote the author of Lord of the Rings, "myths are not lies." Even though it's pretty safe to assume that many of the events described in Genesis didn't really happen, that doesn't mean that they have no bearing on our lives or aren't true in some deeper sense. After all, myth was the language of ancient people, so it's not too hard to believe that God could use that language to convey truth to them.

It just seems that real truth should be based on fact, not fiction. It's more inspiring to me to ponder what life for early humans living off the land would have been like. There was a time when we almost didn't make it, but somehow we did and continued to evolve physically and culturally.

 

[Traitorfish]

To quote the author of Lord of the Rings, "myths are not lies."

I will say, this is a concept I've always loved, and I think it says a lot about the human relationship with fiction (perhaps the only characteristic that truly sets us apart from other animals). I've heard another description of it, something along the lines of "just because it's not real doesn't mean it's not true".

 

[Berzerker]

So I've read up quite a bit on the old story of the Apple, Adam, and Eve and such, and I can't seem to grasp one thing I see as important in it all.

Besides the fact that God had commanded Adam and Eve not to eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, why would that be a bad thing to do?

I suppose what I mean is, why would God not want his creation to know the difference? Also, if they did not know the difference between good and evil, how could the very act of disobedience of God be seen as good or evil from their eyes?

Also, it seems that gaining knowledge from a plant led to the idea that all plant-based knowledge is deemed as evil in the west.

Could it not have been God's intent that we eat from it? After all, the snake was in the garden, which supposedly couldn't house evil inside, so God allowed the snake to be there as a tempter at the very least it seems.

what was the first identifiable "change" in Adam and Eve? She was pregnant... Thats why it took God a while to find out they had eaten from the tree, they hid "their nakedness" from God. The knowledge of good and evil was the knowledge of procreation, God didn't want humans over running his Garden.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

How does eating a fruit make you pregnant. Im pretty sure that there isnt semen in the fruit and even if there was the stomach acids would probably ruin it.

 

[Berzerker]

the "fruit" is knowledge, not actual fruit.

That´s not really in Genesis though; as an interpretation it hardly relates to it in fact. All that Genesis says is that God created man and gave man the earth to rule over.

There are references in Genesis to this servitude, Adam was not lazily lounging around the Garden - he was tending it for God. And Genesis hearkens back to a time when there was no Adam to till the land. Of course the Sumerians and Akkadians were blunt about why humans were created, to be slave labor.

 

[Elrohir]

How does eating a fruit make you pregnant. Im pretty sure that there isnt semen in the fruit and even if there was the stomach acids would probably ruin it.

The fruit didn't make her pregnant.

 

[aimeeandbeatles]

I'm confused!

 

[Berzerker]

The "fruit" represents something that allowed Adam and Eve to start having kids, thats my take on it... Why did God care? It would seem God had told other people to be "fruitful" and fill the Earth. But not his Garden... His reaction is similar to the Tower of Babel story, God doesn't really want us around too much

 

[_random_]

Edit: Misread post.

 

[Dumanios]

Why did God destroy the Tower of Babel anyway? And if it was just because, then why hasn't he destroyed that sail skyscraper in Dubai? Did he just get bored of destroying large buildings?

 

[Souron]

Actually, it was an old pagan thing that got hammered into a vaguely Christian framework. Supposedly, it started as Odin (who survived as a folkloric figure even after Germanic paganism was suppressed) taking breaks while out on the Wild Hunt, and rewarding those who offered hospitality through refreshments for him and his horse (tellingly, St Nicholas carries a staff, a more Christian counterpart to Odin's spear, and also rides a white horse), hospitality and gift-giving both being customs of paramount importance among the Germanic peoples. And then, of course, we've got the English character of Father Christmas (a cousin, and once a distinct figure), who was practically animistic in his relation to the holiday, as much Christmas-incarnate as a mere mascot; hardly a Christian concept!

I did not mean to imply that it had Christian origins. I was only explaining the role of Santa in modern society.

 

[Souron]

Why did God destroy the Tower of Babel anyway? And if it was just because, then why hasn't he destroyed that sail skyscraper in Dubai? Did he just get bored of destroying large buildings?

I've already quoted the passage in this thread:

That is not the only instance of God appearing jealous of man, for instance, Genesis 11:5-7:
But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men were building. The LORD said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."

Apparently God gets jealous sometimes.