A quick practice session with trading and bargaining

[AlanH]

Originally posted by DaviddesJ
The "investigate city" option shows you the allocation of commerce to research/gold/entertainment, which is the same in all cities of a civilization. Income from other civs always goes directly into gold; it doesn't get "allocated" between research, gold, and entertainment.

That's true.
[edited some rubbish out - Sorry, it's getting late here!] You're quite right, If you give them a big gpt input and they want to increase the science funding rate as a result then it will show up as a reduced proportion of the city gpt going to gold and an increased proportion going to science.

@Moonsinger:

Was it a case of "They'd never do such a deal?" If so then maybe they didn't have any spare gpt when you asked. Then another civ did a deal with them between turns that gave them a 73 gpt surplus, so they came to you with an offer you couldn't refuse. That would kind of confirm that the AI does know it has acquired new gpt during the same turn.

 

[denyd]

Moonsinger,

It's also possible that they had no gold in the treasury and had science at say 80%. If they had given 73gpt, they would have gone bust and lost improvements. During their turn, they changed the science to 0% and made you the offer.

If during the AI turn, the AI offers you something for enough gpt to great a per turn loss and you have no gold in the treasury and you accept the deal, you lose an improvement during the next turn (before you can adjust the slider).

 

[DaviddesJ]

Originally posted by AlanH
TMy point was that if you have just done a deal to give them x gpt then you will not be able to tell from a city investigation whether they will now have that as a gpt surplus going into their treasury or if they have added it to their science funding and accelerated their current research program.

This is just not true. If they have accelerated their research, then you'll be able to see that from the Investigate City screen, because their research allocation will be at a higher percentage.

 

[AlanH]

Originally posted by DaviddesJ


This is just not true. If they have accelerated their research, then you'll be able to see that from the Investigate City screen, because their research allocation will be at a higher percentage.

Yep! You cross-posted with my edit. Sorry, I'll go quietly to my bed

 

[Yndy]

Originally posted by cracker
Without posting any spoiler information, I can tell yo all that Moonsinger had absolutely no knowledge of what Gotm20-Spain would look like but this thread an the trading and training concepts that it embodies could not be more perfectly matched with the game designe concepts for Gotm20.

Any player that did not take the time to read this thread and practice the basic trading concepts would be at severe disadvantage in most Deity level game situations.

I would like to subscribe to that. I can even say that the trading session(s) helped me more than my “preparation” game for GOTM 20. And I already knew about most of the things in this thread.

 

[runifoc]

Thank you to everyone who participated in this thread. I just turned in my QSC submission for GOTM20. I achieved better trades as a result of your posts than in any previous game I've played.

I especially want to thank Moonsinger for caring enough to start this thread. You are terrific!

runifoc

 

[Karasu]

Wow.

I just stumbled into this thread -can't understand how I managed to miss it in the last days!

It is absolutely fantastic, I think it promoted some of the most instructive discussions I've ever read. My thanks and admiration to all who contributed -and, of course, to its most notable starter...

 

[denyd]

I wasn't able to download the game to try the trading sessions, but being able to follow through the progression of some of the posts provided lots of new ideas.

{Denyd, I apologize but I could not figure out a logical way to leave this paragraph about Gotm20 in this discussion without violating the intent of the spoiler rules. I also want to make sure that we do not invite discussion of actual aspects of Gotm20 outside of the prescribed spoiler thread formats. -cracker

PS. - please enable PM functions to allow us to communicate with you internally. If that function was enabled I would have emailed you your text that was saved from here with some suggestions and encouragement to include that paragraph in your first post in the opening spoiler thread.}

Thanks again for the tips.

 

[Moonsinger]

Thank you everyone for responding to this thread. Thank you very much! I'm very flattered. It's really all of you that breath life into this thread. As the result of your posts, I have been learning a lot too. I can't wait to read about your glorious business deals in the GOTM20 when Cracker starts those spoiler threads. Like some of you, I just recently discover that Civ3 is more than just a war game, it's a "tycoon" type of game too. Once we get our economy going and have a lot of friends and allies on our sides, Deity or not, we are going to have a lot of fun.

PS: The trading part has always been the most fun part in my game. Like some of you already found out for yourself, it could easily take a good hour just to play the "trade" turn. It's very time consuming but it's well rewarded. For those extra time I spend on trading, I consider it as playing a different type of game (like Monopoly Tycoon) inside Civ3.

 

[Moonsinger]

denyd,

I think you did the right thing. In any Deity game, our civ usually have a lot of catching up to do in military development; therefore, it would be best to leave the "renegotiated peace" part alone until our military advisor say that "comparing to these guys, we are strong" or something.


DaviddesJ & AlanH,

I concur with your theory on the gpt deal with France. Thanks!

 

[DaviddesJ]

Originally posted by Moonsinger
PS: The trading part has always been the most fun part in my game.

Personally, I find it gets a little old. I'm hoping that maybe one of these months there will be a "Predator" GOTM with no trading allowed.

 

[Moonsinger]

Originally posted by DaviddesJ
Personally, I find it gets a little old.

As the world turns, everything will get old eventually. It's perfectly understandable that some of us age faster than the others. In any case, we are all aging and eventually we will cease to exist. In the mean time, there isn't much I could do but hope that I won't age too fast.

 

[AlanH]

Originally posted by Moonsinger
In the mean time, there isn't much I could do but hope that I won't age too fast.

Judging from the photo of you in your avatar you have many, many years to go to catch me.

 

[Renata]

The only thing that currently annoys me about trading is the interface. Having the AI consistently 'offer' about 10% less than they're willing to pay, and then having to go back and forth a million times between mouse and keypad in order to find out what they'll actually take .. blech.

If the interface was better I'd enjoy it a lot more than I do.

Renata

 

[hotrod0823]

At least now in PTW you can see all the current dealings without having to go to each AI and checking Active Trades.

I agree the haggling is a pain. IIRC not taking there offer and haggling may have an effect on there annoyance level however. I almost always haggle myself but try to use nice round numbers up and down. In the end is that extra 5 gold you got for a tech that cost 1000 gold all that important? Someone should write a sorting program to find the best deals . Just kidding.

 

[Ronald]

Hi Moonsinger,

I saw that your summary slots are still empty, are you planning to post these summaries? I would be very interested reading them.

best regards,

Ronald

 

[Moonsinger]

Hi Ronald,

At the moment, I don't have a clue on what I should do with the reserve slot. Since I saw Desert Fox does that all the time, I of course did that without thinking too much about them at the time. What do you think I should do with those slots?

Thanks,
Moonsinger

 

[Ronald]

Originally posted by Moonsinger
Hi Ronald,

At the moment, I don't have a clue on what I should do with the reserve slot. Since I saw Desert Fox does that all the time, I of course did that without thinking too much about them at the time. What do you think I should do with those slots?

Thanks,
Moonsinger

Well, I thought you will come up with the best possible trading sequence in one slot and with the top 10 tradings or so in the other

and if not, I still enjoyed this practice in trading very much.

Ronald

 

[OneFastWarrior]

hey, Moonsinger, I noticed that your signature had ptw 1.21

are you playing this way now?

I was not able to participate in this trading thread, as my vanilla version is on loan to my sis

I did however learn from reading through it. A very big thank you, I learned alot

 

[DaviddesJ]

Originally posted by OneFastWarrior
I was not able to participate in this trading thread, as my vanilla version is on loan to my sis

I loaded the save file in PTW 1.21f and it worked fine, at least for trading. I think you can play save files from original civ with PTW.