a startup - how to optimalize

[csarmi]

Hi all!

I started a warlords game on immortal. Archipelago map, really small islands, edit: sorry, epic speed. Whichever is the 2nd longest.

I got an island (starting) with the following:

1 plain hills (city built there on turn 2), fresh water (2f2p1c)
1 grassland forest, fresh water (2f1p)
1 grassland, fresh water (2f1c)
1 plain hills forest (3p)
4 grassland forest (2f1p)

the city has a crab (2f3c) and a clam (2f3c) in the 2nd circle (so culture will get there in 7 turns), both will get +2 food from fishing boats

the rest of the tiles are all coast with no bonuses

Vikings, Ragnar (financial, agressive), unique building replaces lighthouse (gives free navigation I to all ships), starts with fishing and hunting (settler+scout)

Assume that you'll be able to get polytheism first (if you really want to), and assume that you can circumnavigate the globe (small map) with a workboat (if you really want to - btw you still get the bonus? feels very cheap).

What should I do?

Options:

1) go for polytheism
2) go for bronze working asap and get a whipping economy
3) go for sailing + some others and get a settler out

I don't know which one is best, but that's not really the question. The real question is:

1) which one will be better: getting the builds by whips or the regular way?

2) Assume I decide whips. Which build and tile working order is optimal and how to determine it (easily enough, so that I don't have to calc for 25 minutes at start... is there some method?)

a)I mean say I start working the 3p0f tile (stagnant), looks better than the 1p3f tile (but is it better?)... Work boat ready in 9 turns, city expanded, fishing boat ready. Then which tile to work and why? Which will be better in the long run? What will I end up with option one? And option two?

b) Assume the same setup, but the seafood resources are in range now right at the start. Is it better to speed the workboat build (lose commerce and food but I might get soem back) or just keep working the unimproved clam?

c) Assume the same setup, but replace the clam with a fish... or replace the crab too. Now what changes and why?

(assume after it I'll keep building/whipping for a while)

What I really seek is a good method with which I can see fast in jungles like this. Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Hristo]

A screenshot would help a lot!

 

[cabert]

about building, it's a matter of happiness
you probably won't be able to grow past size 4 because of happiness
or to be exact, the pop over 4 will be unhappies (=whip material) until you get the techs and ressources to overcome this.
crabs don't give happiness

And about religion, i don't believe you'll get one, since your high commerce tiles are out of reach for 7 turns (+1 turn for not building on the first turn)!

I'd go for the UB as fast as possible, then send a boat (any boat) for a fast circum, while teching to BW. After that it whipping time.

disclaimer : it's over my usual level

 

[voek]

Building the workboat seems like a no brainer. Bronze first for the whip since have a lot of extra food and forrest. Sailing soon after. Early religion doesn't seem like a good idea. I would focus on expanding fast with coastcity's. Whip/chop the settlers ASAP. I usualy don't try to sail around the world with a workboat. I would try it when you get the trireme (bronze) and trade maps with paper. A lot of times I can get the bonus that way. Might not be viable on Immortal and archipelago map.

Good starting location imo. Could you post the starting save? I might like to try it out. Sounds like fun.

 

[Jet]

I always max production for the [obelisk and] work boat. Since it gets you working a higher-yield tile sooner I assume it's more efficient. Even if my borders didn't pop in time I'd stay in max production until the seafood was hooked up (it might be better to time it exactly, though).

Whipping is 30 hammers every 10 turns on Normal, so assuming you can grow back in that time, it's like turning surplus food into a 3P specialist at the cost of -1 happy - it's like using that lost happy to work a 2F3P tile. You want to re-whip when the unhappy runs out, so that determines the food tiles to work - work just enough food to grow back.

Since in the opening moves most commerce is from the palace, differences in tile commerce then are only important if you're racing to a religion or if it's important to time a tech with a build. Likewise the exact type and placement of seafood is only important if you want to time something exactly, and that depends exactly what you're building and researching.

Circumnavigation comes from exposed tiles - you can even get it in a landlocked OCC from map trading or Satellites.

Sailing or BW first, beats me, but check out http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=148242.

 

[csarmi]

Here is the starting save

If someone tells me how to make a screenshot, I might do it. But I think I described everything anyways.

Once again, what I'm interested in is how to optimize this town('s production) for the first hundred turns or so, don't care about the world outside (yet).

Btw we're playing it right now and should be winning.

 

[Jet]

Do you literally mean how can I get the most hammers from my capital in the first 100 turns, or what? I think what is optimal depends on your goals.

The most-hammers question is obviously pretty academic. Don't build any settlers, chop everything, etc.

 

[csarmi]

You can't chop without workers.

Of course it'd be easier if I could formulate the question well. For starter, it might be something like this:

assume
- you choose to go for bronze working as soon as possible
- you build only workboats, granaries or lighthouses (for now)
- your happiness cap is at 4

what tiles should you work (and when), which order for sciences and buildings (granary, lighthouse), when do you have to apply the whip, etc... to have the best outcome after 30 turns... 50 turns... 100 turns

(for best there can be multiple answers depending on what do we emphasize)

 

[cabert]

you can't build a granary before pottery, and a lighthouse requires sailing
somewhat unusual to have those built before worker

 

[csarmi]

You sure gonna build them sooner on maps like this, where you settle upon islands with 1-4 tiles... and your capital has no tile to improve (except chop+mine for the plain hills, or some cottages later).