A study of atheism worldwide

[Arwon]

I'm almost certain the rate of atheism/agnosticism is higher than reported in most countries. People have a tendency to identify as "Christian" or whatever while actually being really apathetic and not thinking things through at all.

 

[Neonanocyborgasm]

Source? ......

You must've forgotten the entire history of classical philosophy. Nearly every philosopher either implies or outright denies the existence of the gods after 400 BC. At best, the gods are considered unimportant to human life. Among the educated upper classes (who could afford access to philosophy), atheism or agnosticism was commonplace. The only people who were actively religious were the lower classes, and religion was seen as a useful tool to control the masses.

 

[warpus]

any atheists are not such because of reason, but because of a hatred for religion or the idea of God.

That is just not true.

 

[Japanrocks12]

I don't believe that's as much of a factor, if by education you're implying that atheistic beliefs are somehow more rational than religious ones. The religion of the United States would be harder to explain in that case.

Atheism can be just as emotionally-based (as opposed to education or rationally-based) as religion. Many atheists are not such because of reason, but because of a hatred for religion or the idea of God. Just as religion can be both emotionally-based and logic-based, so can the lack of religion, and that leads me to believe education is not so much a factor as culture.

that's a tad unfair don't you think? I'm what you would call atheist only because I don't see where the god figure would fit into my life. Or perhaps because I believe that his existence is unknown, since he has never shown himself to me. But had he, perhaps I too would embrace him and welcome him into my life.

 

[dh_epic]

I think it's a correlation, but there is probably some other cause that leads to both. Even then, the anomalies stand out. So it probably doesn't mean too much.

 

[warpus]

I think it's a correlation, but there is probably some other cause that leads to both. Even then, the anomalies stand out. So it probably doesn't mean too much.

The education thing makes sense to me. The more you learn about how the world works, the more you realize that the religious 'truths' you were taught as a child don't make sense.

The more you learn, the more you question. You realize that some of the things you were taught can't possibly be true - and you become a skeptic.

It is also a question of culture - in the U.S. especially.

So it's a combination of things.

 

[dh_epic]

But with all the flaws in the US education system, it can't be worse than Vietnam's? There's obviously more than one cause here, and it's hard to draw any broad conclusion.

 

[warpus]

I think the U.S. is an anomaly here, mainly to do with culture.

 

[Gogf]

Atheism can be just as emotionally-based (as opposed to education or rationally-based) as religion. Many atheists are not such because of reason, but because of a hatred for religion or the idea of God. Just as religion can be both emotionally-based and logic-based, so can the lack of religion, and that leads me to believe education is not so much a factor as culture.

Do you have an unbiased source for this, or is it just speculation? I find it hard to believe that people become atheists because of "hatred for God." You could probably say that I hate Osama Bin Laden, but I don't think he doesn't exist.

But with all the flaws in the US education system, it can't be worse than Vietnam's? There's obviously more than one cause here, and it's hard to draw any broad conclusion.

Well, as Warpus says, the US is certainly an anomaly here, but let's not forget that Vietnam is a communist country, and communist have traditionally not been in favor of an awful lot of religious freedom.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

What disrespect!? It's not like they are using pages from the Bible to roll a doobie or taking leaks on graveyards or churches.

It is a simple, personal opinion.

I do not dispute that it is a personal opinion, and here at least I will not condemn it as such. But the implicit criticisms of the religious are there nonetheless.

That's all.

 

[MobBoss]

Secular jews put emphasis on the culture and ethnic origin rather then god and religion. They may still believe in god, but rather in a spiritual way and not in a specific religion (like judaism), a recent poll shows half of Israeli jews are secular.

Thank you for pointing out that secular doesnt necessarily mean 'atheist'.

 

[MobBoss]

The education thing makes sense to me. The more you learn about how the world works, the more you realize that the religious 'truths' you were taught as a child don't make sense.

I think the opposite is actually true....the more I learn of the world, and the older I get, the more Christianity makes sense to me.

In other words, my religion gives me answers that make a difference in my life and my families while the world offers only crap. Thats about all the convincing I need.

 

[warpus]

MobBoss

Religion offered me and my family a lot of support & many answers in our times of need (we lived in communist Poland, I'm not sure if you know the background history/setting), so I can relate to that.

I was talking about more 'how does the physical world work?' type truth. The more you learn in school the more you realize that the supernatural plays no part in it. Most religions propose that the supernatural plays a big part in how reality operates, so naturally most people start getting skeptical, the more they learn.

I am just using this as a possible explanation why countries with higher standards of education tend to have more atheists. There are more factors, for sure, otherwise the U.S. would be mainly atheist. It's meant to be an explanation of one of the factors.

 

[GenMarshall]

Simple: Better education means people no longer look to illogical explanations, and instead look to logical explanations.

I am a religious person and yet I am educated. Are you implying that religious people are all uneducated hicks?

 

[Perfection]

Well Warpus your mistake was general learning about the world, i really don't think that plays a big part in being nonreligious because we all learn about the world. What I think it is, is the proliferation of a scientific mentality and the idea that you need evidence for something to believe in it. At least, that's what it was for me.

I am a religious person and yet I am educated. Are you implying that religious people are all uneducated hicks?

What's your degree again?

 

[Truronian]

The only problem is that the definition of atheist is changing in this thread. If you consider an atheist as someone who has thought through their beliefs and decided there is no God, then your opinion is true by definition. Those who are just Religion A on paper are claimed as closet atheists in some posts to show the fading of religious beliefs, and then later they are Christians to show how uneducated believers are.

I would call them apatheists myself, but on paper they tend to go down as religious. As there is no way to distinguish between the religous and apatheists just by the census this will skew the "theist" category towards the uneducated. The issue is not why are atheists cleverer than theists, its why do the statistics show that atheists are cleverer than theists.

 

[scy12]

Simple: Better education means people no longer look to illogical explanations, and instead look to logical explanations.

Indeed. However Education can be selective and allow people to make the logical conclusions in other fields , while the same people will take whatever religious illogicality as the truth.

Since Religion is about Power even if the above is true and it does decline it won't dissapear until those in control , lose power due to social , economical and not logical reasons.(We know that god is a lie but it doesn't matter).

 

[StarWorms]

I am a religious person and yet I am educated. Are you implying that religious people are all uneducated hicks?

Nope. I'm implying that in general, religious people are less educated, but that doesn't mean educated people can't be religious.

Religion is an illogical belief though because it's about having faith that something that cannot be sensed made everything. Those who are educated can look to scientific knowledge that they've learned to think about more logical ways to explain things: Such as fossil evidence, carbon dating, DNA evidence. Most people in Africa probably don't have access to that kind of education, and those who choose to reject evolution (not as in how life began but how it continues) I feel must be uneducated.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

But again there is no logical reason why acceptance of the validity of the theory of evolution by natural selection, or of current theories of cosmology or even abiogenesis, should lead to a loss of religious faith. Of course it does, which may say something about the faith in question.

 

[dh_epic]

The only reason why learning about evolution leads to a loss of faith is because some religious leaders force you to choose. "If you believe in evolution, your beliefs simply cannot be reconciled with the scriptures." If religious leaders put a gun to peoples' heads and force them to choose between faith and science, they're bound to lose just as much as they gain.

Still, there are a few smart people who see a third choice: if a religious leader forces you to choose between rejecting faith and rejecting science, reject the religious leader instead.