A study of atheism worldwide

[Masquerouge]

and I'm trying to do the exact same, but I'm being cautious not to use education as a factor, but rather the material lifestyles. that's IF we need to look at overarching societal issues at all, since there are a myriad more personal issues that influence the statistic. I was explaining to you why I'm apprehensive about saying that more education results in more atheism.

Again, where did I say anything about more education resulting in more atheism?

I've edited my previous post with a quote from Starworms that I think you're attributing to me, please check it

 

[wicshade]

after reading all of the posts in this thread it strikes me odd that people see religion as a reflection of Society, or a persons education.

i am very surprized that nobody has mentioned that parts of a persons brain infulence what we define as religion.

Feeling of not being alone, for one

i remeber reading an article about priests and nuns, it said that the parts of the brain that Neralogists assume to cause religuos thoughts was, more active in these people,

here is a link i found that i think relates to this thread very well. it is about epilepsey and religion.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2003/godonbrain.shtml

IMO Brain patterns are slightly different today then they were 400 or even 75 years ago

 

[Bill3000]

Here is what the CIA factbook says on Isreal:

Jewish 76.4%, Muslim 16%, Arab Christians 1.7%, other Christian 0.4%, Druze 1.6%, unspecified 3.9% (2004)

Sooooo? Considering the issues there, I would think Israel one of the most religious oriented places on earth.

No - you're forgetting that Judaism is an ethnicity as well as a religion. One can be both jewish and atheist, and secular jewish culture is historically pretty big. Gogf, for example, would could as jewish in the census if he lived there, despite the fact that he's an atheist.

Besides, the Zionist movement was first and foremost a secular jewish movement, not a religious one.

For reference, checking Wikipedia:

The religious affiliation of Israeli Jews varies widely: eight percent define themselves as Haredi Jews (ultra-Orthodox), and twenty percent as "secular Jews." The majority of Israeli Jews, fifty-five percent, say they are "traditional." The remaining seventeen percent define themselves as Orthodox Jews

"Secular jews" would include those who are atheist or near-that but are jewish by culture.

 

[Masquerouge]

No - you're forgetting that Judaism is an ethnicity as well as a religion. One can be both jewish and atheist, and secular jewish culture is historically pretty big. Gogf, for example, would could as jewish in the census if he lived there, despite the fact that he's an atheist.

Besides, the Zionist movement was first and foremost a secular jewish movement, not a religious one.

For reference, checking Wikipedia:


"Secular jews" would include those who are atheist or near-that but are jewish by culture.

That is soooooo post #48...

 

[Bill3000]

That is soooooo post #48...

sue me, I forgot to look at the whole thing

 

[Masquerouge]

sue me, I forgot to look at the whole thing

TBH I think it's a good idea to hammer our point home, I just wanted bragging rights

 

[puglover]

So a purely materialistic explanation? Nothing to do with, for instance, education?

I don't believe that's as much of a factor, if by education you're implying that atheistic beliefs are somehow more rational than religious ones. The religion of the United States would be harder to explain in that case.

Atheism can be just as emotionally-based (as opposed to education or rationally-based) as religion. Many atheists are not such because of reason, but because of a hatred for religion or the idea of God. Just as religion can be both emotionally-based and logic-based, so can the lack of religion, and that leads me to believe education is not so much a factor as culture.

 

[Kozmos]

Many atheists are not such because of reason, but because of a hatred for religion or the idea of God. Just as religion can be both emotionally-based and logic-based, so can the lack of religion, and that leads me to believe education is not so much a factor as culture.

Hatred of God? Right.....

Speaking out of my personal experience, most of my generation is atheist not because they hate god, but because they dont give a damn about worshiping thin air and following rules that restrict their freedom of action. (weather that action be sex, booze or violence)

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Hatred of God? Right.....

Speaking out of my personal experience, most of my generation is atheist not because they hate god, but because they dont give a damn about worshiping thin air and following rules that restrict their freedom of action. (weather that action be sex, booze or violence)

Well, referring to God as "thin air" hardly shows love. In fact, you referred to religion in somewhat hostile terms and then proceeded to explain that unwillingness to give up certain things was a major factor.

Looks like you are both right and just word it differently.

 

[Truronian]

Many atheists are not such because of reason, but because of a hatred for religion or the idea of God. Just as religion can be both emotionally-based and logic-based, so can the lack of religion, and that leads me to believe education is not so much a factor as culture.

Many? I know of none, and I know a fair few atheists.

Well, referring to God as "thin air" hardly shows love. In fact, you referred to religion in somewhat hostile terms and then proceeded to explain that unwillingness to give up certain things was a major factor.

How can an atheist hate somothing he doesn't believe to exist? Dislike for religion is usually more accurately described as dislike for organised religion... the concept of religion has nothing inherantly hateable about it.

I do not buy this "some people become atheists to 1-up the religious" argument. Its rubbish.

The correlation between education and atheism can far more easily be explained by considering where someone that doesn't consider religion would lie in a census... generally under what ever religion their culture adhere's to traditionally. No culture is traditionally atheist. In other words, atheists in general will have thought through their beliefs, while theists will be divided into those who have though through their beliefs and those who are just "Religion A" on paper. The latter tend to be the more uneducated members of the populace.

 

[MobBoss]

No - you're forgetting that Judaism is an ethnicity as well as a religion. One can be both jewish and atheist, and secular jewish culture is historically pretty big. Gogf, for example, would could as jewish in the census if he lived there, despite the fact that he's an atheist.

Besides, the Zionist movement was first and foremost a secular jewish movement, not a religious one.

For reference, checking Wikipedia:


"Secular jews" would include those who are atheist or near-that but are jewish by culture.

Edit: I would like to get a clarification that indeed 'secular jew' means what you say it does. I am not so sure it means what you assume it to.

 

[Kozmos]

Well, referring to God as "thin air" hardly shows love. In fact, you referred to religion in somewhat hostile terms and then proceeded to explain that unwillingness to give up certain things was a major factor.

Looks like you are both right and just word it differently.

Hostile terms? Hardly, the 'thin air' is not a remark of hate but rather something they consider silly to do based on the lack of evidence of a higher power.

 

[Eran of Arcadia]

Hostile terms? Hardly, the 'thin air' is not a remark of hate but rather something they consider silly to do based on the lack of evidence of a higher power.

It is, on the contrary, blatant disrespect, as you are no doubt aware that theists do not consider God to be air. And many of them do really feel that they have evidence of a higher power. Now I am not going to criticize you here for disrespecting the idea of God but I think it is obvious it is there.

 

[StarWorms]

Most people are not born Atheist - they become them. I personally was born and raised Catholic, and didn't make the switch to the "dark side" until my late teens. There is no public record that has that fact recorded.

That is completely and utterly false.

Everyone is born atheist. We are not born to think of gods. If you took a child and left it on its own to grow up, it's not going to believe in a religion. A default human believes in nothing theistic. For this reason, agnostics are not weak atheists, but weak theists.

 

[Bill3000]

Edit: I would like to get a clarification that indeed 'secular jew' means what you say it does. I am not so sure it means what you assume it to.

A secular jews does not necessarily mean that one is an atheist, of course, but it does mean that the main focus of their jewishness is that of [wiki]secular jewish culture[/wiki] rather than the religious parts. My point was to back up the counterintuitive statistic that Israel has a high amount of atheists (Well, nothing like the Czech Republic, of course ) despite having a large amount of Jews.

 

[bhsup]

Touche

But since humans have free will, is there anything to stop them from all becoming atheists?

Ooh. No, not really. Well yes, but then we're getting into prophecy and Revelation and all that. But excluding that, nope, nothing keeping all the people in the world from eventually turning into atheists.

 

[nivi]

Edit: I would like to get a clarification that indeed 'secular jew' means what you say it does. I am not so sure it means what you assume it to.

Secular jews put emphasis on the culture and ethnic origin rather then god and religion. They may still believe in god, but rather in a spiritual way and not in a specific religion (like judaism), a recent poll shows half of Israeli jews are secular.

 

[Kozmos]

It is, on the contrary, blatant disrespect, as you are no doubt aware that theists do not consider God to be air. And many of them do really feel that they have evidence of a higher power. Now I am not going to criticize you here for disrespecting the idea of God but I think it is obvious it is there.

What disrespect!? It's not like they are using pages from the Bible to roll a doobie or taking leaks on graveyards or churches.

It is a simple, personal opinion.

 

[Masquerouge]

I don't believe that's as much of a factor, if by education you're implying that atheistic beliefs are somehow more rational than religious ones. The religion of the United States would be harder to explain in that case.

Atheism can be just as emotionally-based (as opposed to education or rationally-based) as religion. Many atheists are not such because of reason, but because of a hatred for religion or the idea of God. Just as religion can be both emotionally-based and logic-based, so can the lack of religion, and that leads me to believe education is not so much a factor as culture.

I agree with your explanation

 

[Stile]

In other words, atheists in general will have thought through their beliefs, while theists will be divided into those who have though through their beliefs and those who are just "Religion A" on paper. The latter tend to be the more uneducated members of the populace.

The only problem is that the definition of atheist is changing in this thread. If you consider an atheist as someone who has thought through their beliefs and decided there is no God, then your opinion is true by definition. Those who are just Religion A on paper are claimed as closet atheists in some posts to show the fading of religious beliefs, and then later they are Christians to show how uneducated believers are.

It makes sense to me that after atheism reaches a certain threshold, atheism becomes "Religion A". Especially among teenagers seeking peer approval and a sinful lifestyle, I would expect this to be prevalent. These people are not the educated; they are hedonists and, in my opinion, indistinguishable from many atheists. Until the prodigal children return, you can claim them.