A test of Democracy in the US

[A'AbarachAmadan]

Since when has this "war" ever been about targeting the real terrorists. All pretense for that was abandoned about 3 years ago.

Disagree. Saddam has openly supported terrorists for years. Removing him was just an operation in the overall war against terrorism. Punishing an ally nation's business just because they are Arab or Muslim is racism and xenophobism. Disgusting.

 

[blackheart]

Agreed. There will be some point in time when we need to reward those Muslim/Arab nations that do help in the war on terror as opposed to being fearful of them. We missed an opportunity here to do that.

I agree, but this might cause unease with other international firms because it shows governmental readiness to interfere to business matters based on nationality.

 

[pboily]

hehehe...

I wonder if the confusion (urban myth) took off because of the homonymic nature of COSCO and COSTCO.

 

[bhsup]

well, it says in the wiki link that it is owned by the PRC government, not the army.

I really thought I remembered reports when this happened of the PLA owning COSCO. But even if it is 'just' the PRC that owns it...it's a commie government owning US ports! But see below about the Cox Report.

The PLA military owns all sorts of companies and sucks in their profits, totally skewing China's military spending budget. That's why the official numbers are so low.

The Cox Report Chapter 1, (do a search for COSCO, it rates an entire section) an official report from the US House of Representatives, states the following.

[SIZE=+2]C[/SIZE]hina Ocean Shipping Company (COSCO), the PRC's state-owned shipping company which operates under the direction of the Ministry of Foreign Trade and Economic Cooperation and answers to the PRC State Council,103 attempted to lease port space that was being vacated by the U.S. Navy in Long Beach, California. The lease proposal led to a heated debate between Congress, which wanted to prevent the lease based on national security concerns, and President Clinton, who supported the lease. Legislation passed by both houses of Congress in 1997 barred the lease and voided the President's authority to grant a waiver.104

Other information indicates COSCO is far from benign. In 1996, U.S. Customs agents confiscated over 2,000 assault rifles that were being smuggled into the United States aboard COSCO ships.105 "Although presented as a commercial entity," according to the House Task Force on Terrorism and Unconventional Warfare, "COSCO is actually an arm of the Chinese military establishment." The Clinton administration has determined that additional information concerning COSCO that appears in the Select Committee's classified Final Report cannot be made public without affecting national security.

Clinton, the true Manchurian Candidate.

 

[Kayak]

Clinton, the true Manchurian Candidate.

Are you saying we replaced a puppet with a dummy?

 

[CaptainF]

I really thought I remembered reports when this happened of the PLA owning COSCO. But even if it is 'just' the PRC that owns it...it's a commie government owning US ports! But see below about the Cox Report.

The PLA military owns all sorts of companies and sucks in their profits, totally skewing China's military spending budget. That's why the official numbers are so low.

The Cox Report Chapter 1, (do a search for COSCO, it rates an entire section) an official report from the US House of Representatives, states the following.





Clinton, the true Manchurian Candidate.

Okay, but that report is quite dated. Among other things, it named Jiang Zemin as the current PRC President, when in fact nowadays it is Hu Jintao.

As I said earlier, according to Wiki, the PLA no longer runs any sort of commercial enterprises:

Until the mid-1990s, the PLA had extensive commercial enterprise holdings in non-military areas, particularly real estate. Almost all of these holdings were spun-off in the mid-1990s. In most cases, the management of the companies remained unchanged, with the PLA officers running the companies simply retiring from the PLA to run the newly formed private holding companies.

The history of PLA involvement in commercial enterprises begins in the 1950s and 1960s. Because of the socialist state-owned system and from a desire for military self-sufficiency, the PLA created a network of enterprises such as farms, guesthouses, and factories intended to support its own needs. One unintended side effect of the Deng Xiaoping reforms was that many of these enterprises became very profitable. For example, a military guesthouse intended for soldier recreation could easily be converted into a profitable hotel for civilian use. There were two factors which increased PLA commercial involvement in the 1990s. One was that running profitable companies decreased the need for the state to fund the military from the government budget. The second was that in an environment where legal rules were unclear and political connections were important, PLA influence was very useful.

However, by the early-1990s, party officials and high military officials were becoming increasing alarmed at the military's commercial involvement for a number of reasons. First, the military's involvement in commerce was seen to adversely affect military readiness and to cause corruption. Second, there was great concern that having an independent source of funding would lead to decreased loyalty to the party. The result of this was an effort to spin off the PLA's commercial enterprises into private companies managed by former PLA officers, and to reform military procurement from a system in which the PLA directly controls its sources of supply to a contracting system more akin to those of Western countries.

The separation of the PLA from its commercial enterprises was largely complete by the year 2000. It met with very little resistance, as the spinoff was arranged so that few lost out.

 

[bhsup]

Are you saying we replaced a puppet with a dummy?

Er, well, not really . Still, I'd rather have an American dummy than a brilliant Chicom puppet in the oval office.

 

[eyrei]

They say people get the government they deserve, and with this, I'm beginning to think America really does deserve Bush.

Of all the stupid issues to 'unite' the American public. Good lord.

I agree...united in our xenophobia...about the only thing we can agree on is that we don't like arabs.

 

[blackheart]

I agree...united in our xenophobia...about the only thing we can agree on is that we don't like arabs.

I disagree!

 

[Ayatollah So]

Believe me, it pains me to be on the same side of an issue as President Bush. But even a stopped clock is right twice a day, and this happens to be the magic minute.

Little Raven for President! Betazed for Veep! Or vice versa.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

I know its a complete waste of time, but Id like to say something to everybody who likes to jump into threads, call people names (in this case, xenophobe and racist) and then run away. Thats very easy to do. Without thinking about an issue, without offering alternative viewpoints, without communicating in any way in the thread, you very quickly identify yourself as a fair person with an open mind, who has nothing but love for all of mankind. Its too easy, and IMO reveals a weak minded person with little or no convictions, or an ability to articulate and expound upon whatever convictions he may or may not have.

So let me explain something to the herd minded non thinkers who contributed nothing to the thread but childish name calling. Rightly or wrongly, the common people, both in the US and in the Middle East, understand that theyre involved in low intensity war with one another. They might not sit around thinking "Holy crap, we're in a civilizational clash!" but they understand instinctively. Thats why the vast majority of the American people reacted at a gut level to the idea of a Muslim country operating our major ports, and demanded that the government reverse course and reject it. When people are at war, they dont like having the enemy in charge of their ports. That doesnt mean theyre racist or xenophobe. Understand that, try to get it into your head: you may disagree, but we believe that we're at war.

 

[CartesianFart]

So let me explain something to the herd minded non thinkers who contributed nothing to the thread but childish name calling. Rightly or wrongly, the common people, both in the US and in the Middle East, understand that theyre involved in low intensity war with one another. They might not sit around thinking "Holy crap, we're in a civilizational clash!" but they understand instinctively. Thats why the vast majority of the American people reacted at a gut level to the idea of a Muslim country operating our major ports, and demanded that the government reverse course and reject it. When people are at war, they dont like having the enemy in charge of their ports. That doesnt mean theyre racist or xenophobe. Understand that, try to get it into your head: you may disagree, but we believe that we're at war.

Do you think that the businessmen of Dubai and UAE are our enemies?

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Theyre in a war to make money, like all businessmen everywhere. Do I believe their sympathies are with the US, or Al Qaeda? Al Qaeda of course.

 

[anarres]

When people are at war, they dont like having the enemy in charge of their ports. That doesnt mean theyre racist or xenophobe. Understand that, try to get it into your head: you may disagree, but we believe that we're at war.

Inded not wanting the enemy in charge of your ports is fair enough.

Not wanting a company owned by nationals of an ally to operate (...not security at all) your ports, simply because of their religion/race is *precisely* racism.

Look up the definition, these people are not Al Quaida.

<-- sad that even bozo has been duped in to fear

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Anarres, I wish we hadnt gone over to the ME and screwed them over for the past 100 years. I wish they didnt atttack us on 9/11. I wish we didnt invade Iraq, and I hope we dont invade Iran next. I wish Muslims and Westerners could live in peace, and businesses could operate freely in each other countries. But it just isnt the case. Wishing it were so doesnt make it so.

 

[CartesianFart]

Theyre in a war to make money, like all businessmen everywhere. Do I believe their sympathies are with the US, or Al Qaeda? Al Qaeda of course.

Where do you get the evidence that these businessmen are sypathetic to Al-Qaeda cause?Must be at your local KKK clan rally meetings.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Where do you get the evidence that these businessmen are sypathetic to Al-Qaeda cause?Must be at your local KKK clan rally meetings.

See what I mean? To those who disagree with me: look at the quality of your standard bearers. On your side of the debate, is the really the best you guys can do? Its pretty pathetic.

 

[CartesianFart]

See what I mean? To those who disagree with me: look at the quality of your standard bearers. On your side of the debate, is the really the best you guys can do? Its pretty pathetic.

Ok,let's do it without the humour.

Where do you get the evidence that these businessmen are sypathetic to Al-Qaeda cause?

Seriously.No joke attached.I am not calling you a racist,like these buffoons.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

If you want evidence of what people in the ME feel, regardless of whether theyre businessmen or not, I suggest that you read the news.

 

[CartesianFart]

If you want evidence of what people in the ME feel, regardless of whether theyre businessmen or not, I suggest that you read the news.

Hmm..are you implying that the enfeeble masses of the Middle East is closely like the businessmen of the Royal families and other Middle Eastern elites are somewhat conniving to kill us?I highly think not.

Isn't it true that the media have a habit of only showing certain aspect(the poor) of the Middle Eastern world and less of the international elites of that given region?