A very interesting LP and review in progress

[ssmage]

Well, there it is, I ran out of post length to post more quotes, You can hate me something awful for bringing down a goon hammer. If you have better posts you want to share, Bring them up.

It's Thunderbrd focused as I got the permission from you to do so.

 

[raxo2222]

Well, there it is, I ran out of post length to post more quotes, You can hate me something awful for bringing down a goon hammer. If you have better posts you want to share, Bring them up.

It's Thunderbrd focused as I got the permission from you to do so.

I don't see why they would ban you unless copying posts from outside like that is illegal according to them.

You can ask them how to show historical evil without sounding like evil person lol.
Currently they are equivalent of this:
>Shows worst cases in criminology/criminal law/history of crime.
>They accuse you of being criminal or at least supporting criminals.

They really should do rampage in GTA, or all those Paradox strategy games.
You can be easily worse than Hitler in Paradox strategy games.

 

[ssmage]

Well, every single Goon Paradox LP always goes full Socialist utopia, so that's something, GTA isn't really done as https://lparchive.org/Grand-Theft-Auto-San-Andreas-(Screenshot)/ is seen as the perfect GTA LP, and getting probated in the LP forum is either from absolute nasty posts or mod joke friendship probates, so me typing that on SA is a forum culture thing.

 

[raxo2222]

They would form fully automated luxury socially progressive space communism in Stellaris then

What if someone was doing LP like Hitler?
That is full cultural/economical social darwinism, tons of slavery, genocide and cannibalism?
This is doable in Stellaris and other paradox games too.

Also there could be someone role-playing with unconventional views, for example theocratic planned economy with richest people as government
You can mix civics like that in Caveman2Cosmos but they just add to each other linearly.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Well, there it is, I ran out of post length to post more quotes, You can hate me something awful for bringing down a goon hammer. If you have better posts you want to share, Bring them up.

It's Thunderbrd focused as I got the permission from you to do so.

It'll be interesting anyhow

 

[raxo2222]

It'll be interesting anyhow

Looks like we shouldn't use "Gypsy" at all, unless to point its bad slur.
According to them its about as bad as that common one in America starting with n.

Yeah the fact that they keep using g*psies instead of Romani is... unthinking at best

Romani is good name anyway.
It is listed as slur

Gypsy, Gyppo, gippo, gypo, gyppie, gyppy, gipp
a. A Romani person. Derived from "Egyptian", Egypt being mistakenly considered these people's origin.
b. (UK and Australia) Egyptians.[177]

Why does the gold standard work better than literally any modern monetary tech if you're not making ideological value judgements?

Because game has serious problems with balance as usual in various spots.
For example no one really balanced civics past Medieval era.
Also texts sometimes clash with actual stuff.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Looks like we shouldn't use "Gypsy" at all, unless to point its bad slur.
According to them its about as bad as that common one in America starting with n.

That's interesting. I've always considered the term complimentary, rebellious, wise and romantic. Huh.

 

[raxo2222]

That's interesting. I've always considered the term complimentary, rebellious, wise and romantic. Huh.

I guess its racism from ignorance

Someone correctly guessed that some devs were ignorant when adding everything to mod.

They also need to consider the 'there's no such thing as an anti-war movie' thing. If it's in your game and you're not screaming its denunciation at the top of your lungs, people are going to assume you're in favor of it.

Arrhythmia posted:
Devs: I don't think you're actually racists making a racist game for racist people. I think that the immense scope of your project means that you have grabbed and absorbed many small pieces and interpretations of history without critically reflecting upon them.

Adding to that a lot of this stems from the culture system and the requirement that literally every culture have a unique unit. Combine that with the kitchen sink approach of design and the need to give everyone something leads to anything be used which leads to things like beggars and the janjaweed.

Someone didn't finish culture stuff though...
Maybe their last point was historical correctness?

 

[Thunderbrd]

I guess its racism from ignorance

Well yeah. In the US we don't really have any racist sentiments at all towards 'Romani' people but we would hardly know them if they were simply called Romani. It's good to know though. I didn't know until last year that the Ancient Pueblo find the term Anasazi a racist slur since it was what their enemies called them. Many historians didn't realize that until the point was more recently made. It sucks to think you're being unintentionally racist but it also sucks to find out that what you think of as a cool and complimentary naming is considered a slur by those very people you admire. Still... yeah ya gotta change it once you know.

And yes, I do think maybe we took it too far with culture development, from both a game mechanic perspective and where we stand on the 'not being offensive to someone' scale. We will have to audit that work at some point.

Use actual cultural heroes, history, and folklore to shape how you make a culture lol.

Usually that's what we do wherever possible but sometimes the culture didn't produce any we could find and what we DO find when we research the culture might not always be as complimentary but we try to include what we can in a complimentary manner. Even those pirates... brave MFs in a world that suppresses the hell out of their economy. I can understand the 'avoid casting the negative stereotypes' thing though and I probably wouldn't have made that unit myself for that reason. Probably wouldn't have included the Malassan (sp?) culture at all if I couldn't find much on it. One modder made a HUGE project out of trying to include every culture he could find any information on at all.

They also need to consider the 'there's no such thing as an anti-war movie' thing. If it's in your game and you're not screaming its denunciation at the top of your lungs, people are going to assume you're in favor of it.

Is anyone actually in favor of war? Here we try to present it as much as 'it is' as possible and let us all grapple with how we might be able to keep it from happening in the world and get down to the root of the issue. It can be surprisingly effective at giving that insight to play this game through.

I don't really want to engage with the devs personally on this, though I'm not gonna knock other people for doing so. Perhaps it's not the most intellectually honest thing to do, since i'm writing up an LP on it already and thus creating commentary. And I do try to go back and edit things out/apologize when i'm obviously grievously wrong. But just playing the game and writing it up is an enormous effort, let alone having sustained arguments on the forums for more than a sentence or two response to the occasional tech.

Understood... you've made some good points and I've been glad to follow your feedback - I just wish sometimes you'd share it more directly is all. We could use it in places, clearly. And sometimes it just gives us the chance to say, yeah, we know that's not right yet.

 

[Harrier]

Thunderbrd said: ↑
That's interesting. I've always considered the term complimentary, rebellious, wise and romantic. Huh.

I guess its racism from ignorance

Not if you live near a new travellers camp (Gypsy) and see the local crime rate increase.

Also they illegally set up camps on other peoples land and also fly tip all sorts of stuff, as well as the crime and trouble they cause.

 

[raxo2222]

Not if you live near a new travellers camp (Gypsy) and see the local crime rate increase.

Also they illegally set up camps on other peoples land and also fly tip all sorts of stuff, as well as the crime and trouble they cause.

Poverty, lack of education are causes of crime.
I bet you still would see crime if any other group of people lived like that.

Culture lifestyle can lead to poverty, and lack of education among other things, which then cause criminal behaviour.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Poverty, lack of education are causes of crime.
I bet you still would see crime if any other group of people lived like that.

Culture lifestyle can lead to poverty, and lack of education among other things, which then cause criminal behaviour.

I think it's undeniable that their nomadic culture that doesn't believe in private property rights would probably have a higher propensity for committing crimes due maintaining this ideal. Doesn't make them 'bad' people, just ones with different ideas about what is and what is not criminal behavior.

 

[raxo2222]

I think it's undeniable that their nomadic culture that doesn't believe in private property rights would probably have a higher propensity for committing crimes due maintaining this ideal. Doesn't make them 'bad' people, just ones with different ideas about what is and what is not criminal behavior.

This is what I called by their lifestyle - being nomadic in nature.

 

[Thunderbrd]

This is what I called by their lifestyle - being nomadic in nature.

Right but I wouldn't say it's 'poverty' when you don't actually designate yourself to own anything. They live as natural as possible from what I understand, and believe that nature's laws are what matter and that ownership of anything is not one of nature's laws. You can only define poverty in a situation where collecting property and wealth is even seen as a thing. Poverty is a relative term based on the wealth of those you're being compared to.

 

[raxo2222]

Right but I wouldn't say it's 'poverty' when you don't actually designate yourself to own anything. They live as natural as possible from what I understand, and believe that nature's laws are what matter and that ownership of anything is not one of nature's laws. You can only define poverty in a situation where collecting property and wealth is even seen as a thing. Poverty is a relative term based on the wealth of those you're being compared to.

This was generally about every culture and group of people, so while Romani don't see themselves as in poverty some members may be bit greedy

They could earn money by doing services and pay to stay on someones land.
I think most of them just does that.

 

[Thunderbrd]

This was generally about every culture and group of people, so while Romani don't see themselves as in poverty some members may be bit greedy

They could earn money by doing services and pay to stay on someones land.
I think most of them just does that.

It has to be frustrating believing that wealth is a BS concept in the first place, to have to be forced to respect it by the communities you don't fundamentally even agree with existing since you don't fundamentally agree with land ownership as a concept at all. They don't take for greed... they take what they need and don't feel the slightest compunction against it. One does have to wonder how they'd feel if you walked into their camps and just took everything they had though. I'm sure people have done that over the years to try to make a point. I would imagine they feel they stand on spiritual grounds trying to make the point to everyone else and we just aren't hearing it because we're deaf to the truth as they understand it. The idea of 'earning money' to them, must be a fairly deep betrayal of their own beliefs but you DO have to do what you need to for the sake of survival and the truth is, no land remains unclaimed by a state on Earth. Except for places like Antarctica that are considered diplomatically shared by all states.

 

[raxo2222]

They arrived at Transhuman era.
Colonizing rest of solar system.

 

[raxo2222]

And I'm reading it like, at best, "what do you queers have to complain about now that silicon valley has made transition super easy?". Like, even putting aside that the trans in transhumanism is often brushed aside... especially in the context of all the

and super questionable sociology (holy poo poo everything race related in this)...

You're still dealing with humans, and the question of who you love or are attracted to, and who you are doesn't just go away because you can print a new body. It doesn't mean that societal norms evaporate either. Even if we all had robot bodies, odds are pretty good there'll be LGBT robot folks.

It would have cost them nothing to leave that obsolescence out, because while one optimistic read might be that society has evolved and these differences are fully accepted by everyone, the language of "obsolete" and the general tone of the mod as a complete work makes it feel like...

Well, pretty gross to be honest. I've never been to a pride parade and I'm not here to defend those in particular, but I would be extremely surprised if whomever contributed that piece of content wasn't a straight dude who didn't stop to consider the implications.

Obsoleteing stuff to free up memory isn't political statement.
Unbalanced civics and buildings aren't political statement.
Adding stuff for sake of stuff and blindly copying wikipedia and other stuff isn't political statement.
Mod was developed as if politics didn't exist. Not our fault, that history and politics are dumpster fire.
They would be happy if we deleted culture related stuff.

Apparently chaos has right wing bias.
Some of them correctly assumed that obsoleting Pride Parade means LGBT being fully accepted, though this should be at Utopia Destiny or even earlier as transhumanism is so much more progressive, that someone LBGT may be treated as conservative Luddite when transhumanism is widespread.

According to them there are:
Two gender/orientation combinations: Straight Male and political.
Two cultures: Western and political.
Two races: White and political.
Two wealth classes: Middle class and political.
One economic system: political.

It seems like they are kinda split

I suppose it is still less nonsensical than the health/crime system, which can cause situations where you don't need a dentist because you just built a sewer, and you don't need police because you've built a daycare and a youth center.

Its Civ IV mechanic.
Properties are continuos form of that mechanic, it isn't THAT different.

 

[Thunderbrd]

Regallion is smart enough to be seeing the implications for what they are. And I think that's the point. One can look at a facet of the game model and say we're trying to make some horrible point when someone else can look at the same detail and find a more reasonable meaning in it. If you want to be triggered, it's not usually that hard to find a way and it's funny because it seems Trans people are the most on the lookout for any reason to be offended of any group out there. lol. I'm sure they'd take offense to me even pointing that out.

I actually think it makes sense that if you make sure you have proper daycares and youth centers you might not need as much policing down the line. Better cared for children are less likely to become criminals. Duh.

 

[raxo2222]

Galactic era.
Colonizing galaxy.
They will make fully automated socially progressive luxury space communism.
Anarchocapitalism also is possible.