A visual experiment: Would you like Civ3 to look like this -->

[Piernik]

I think it's not your problem, but game It's wierd that the same image looks good in a 'control panel' but it's, as you said, 'chopped off' in a cityqueue So you can't do anything about it, and we don't want to loose view of whole army next to unfriendly city

 

[Civanator]

About the Jet fighters, they usually have 2 jets, not 3. One is the Commander (I forgot what he is called) and the other is the Wingman. we should make this into a creation group, or have some thread where we all co-operate with the units, so we know who is doing what.

Steph, you should release your new tool when it is done, for everyone to use. I plan on giving this a try myself.

 

[Turner]

[dance]

:worshp: :worshp: :worshp:

Okay, I'm a little excited about this, but these ani's are awesome

I love it, I can't wait to install it.

If Firaxis isn't offering you a job, well, they should. That would really spice up the game.

 

[dj_tranquility]

Brilliant..... best idea since snoopy's terrain graphics..... who needs firaxis?

 

[Enigma]

The multiple units animation sounds (and looks) like a neat idea, however, wouldn't having a large area covered by these look a tad crowded? Why not just have it where the single unit animation is retained for movement and fidgeting, and when the unit enters into a battle/is fortified/is a worker assigned to a task then show it as multi-units?

 

[hbdragon88]

Originally posted by HuckFinn
I am going to be a spoilsport here, sorry for it in advance!

I find that the current Civ choice of representing a unit by a single guy is appropriate. It keeps the interface clean and lets you quickly see the overall situation of the board.

What strikes me from the screenshots is that it becomes very cognitively challenging for me to see what is going on. I need to remember that a hoplite unit has actually 6 hoplite guys in it, and then I need to start subconsciously counting in groups of 6 to know how many hoplite units I have. When the map starts to be full of units, all you see is a sea of guys where it is no longer even clear where a unit starts and ends.

Another thought I'd like to toss into the air is... the most typical complaint I hear about single-guy units is "Hey, this is supposed to be a group of X guys and not one!". Well, now we have six-guy units... and I might whine that "the Greek hoplites had 30 guys in a typical formation and not six!", where 30 is a random constant thrown in for the effect... it's still inaccurate in a sense if you want to follow the same logic.

It does look good, but I don't think it's functional. Sorry

Well, you don't have to download it if you don't want to.

Enigma, that's a good idea. It wouldn't be so crowded all the time.

 

[Civanator]

Good Idea enigma, but that would look funny if a unit just popped into 3 or 6 units.

BTW, welcome to the forums.

 

[Hygro]

Enigma I think that's a great idea. This thread is filling up so fast I'm amazed/

 

[Kryten]

Originally posted by Enigma
The multiple units animation sounds (and looks) like a neat idea, however, wouldn't having a large area covered by these look a tad crowded? Why not just have it where the single unit animation is retained for movement and fidgeting, and when the unit enters into a battle/is fortified/is a worker assigned to a task then show it as multi-units?

To hbdragon88, Civanator, Hygro, and Enigma (welcome by the way).....

That is EXACTLY what you would be able to do, should you wish it!

A 'unit' in Civ3 consists of the following animations (called 'flc' files):-
*a default.flc
*a fidget.flc
*a run.flc
*a fortify.flc
*an attack.flc (sometimes also an attackB.flc as well)
*a victory.flc
*a death.flc

Now....should you wish to use 'single figure units' for most of the animations, but 'multi figure units' just for the combat sequences, then you can!
Just replace the the current flc file with the one you prefer!

And....here is the good part....this can even be done IN THE MIDDLE OF A GAME!
(Save the game, download and replace the flc you don't like, then continue!)

 

[Redking]

Here's my secondary reaction to this concept, being how I might implement it usefully in the game:

Personally, I find the game’s current implementation of armies unrealistic and felt that it needed revision (easier to build armies, for one thing).

So I'd like to retain the single-figure units as representative of irregular figures (tribesmen, warbands, skirmishing horsemen, guerillas, et al), and use grouped units to represent the following:

1. Organized formations (ie, organized armies dedicated to pitched battle, such as hoplites, legionaries, and musket infantry).
2. Numerical degree, with the attendant multiplication of cost (including population cost in my personal mod).

So, an army/grouped unit is any unit with the “army” flag, and these army units can built without leaders once a particular small wonder is built (based on an ancient tech like Military Bureaucracy or Pitched Battle).

Non-“army”, irregulars can still be convened into larger forces by virtue of the old fashioned Leader unit forging them into an army.

In this concept, only units that employ tactical formations would be grouped. All others, being irregulars or otherwise using retreat tactics by definition shouldn’t be coalesced into armies (and therefore not allowed to group their attributes – the mark of a formation). I’m not sure how this would apply to most mechanized units. Off hand, I’d say that bombers with fight escorts would apply as an army formation. I don’t know enough about tank fighting tactics. The distinction between organized cavalry and light, skirmishing horseman would be clear.

As an aside, perhaps modern infantry should be in single file formation.

 

[The Troquelet]

It sounds like what we need is a separate multi figure unit [munit] creation forum [a subforum of Unit Graphics perhaps]. We can have one Sticky "Munit Assignment Thread" and one sticky "Munit Library" thread. In the first thread people post what units they'd like to see in munit form. These requests are edited into a list of Requested Munits at the top of the thread so we can see what munits need making. Unit creators can take assignments: "OK, I'll make the Legionary munit" and their names are edited into the first post next to the specified munit so we don't have people working on the same projects. Then when they finish the munit they can post it into the Munit Library for download. Steph is right, this system is very easy to use and the only real work is in making death flcs and so forth. One cool feature of the munit is we can use different unit flcs together... like horse archers and mounted swordsmen, etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we'd need to create flcs for armies of EVERY possible size and unit makeup, right? So we need one set for a spearman army, one for a spearman army with one slot empty, one for a half-spearman half-swordsman army, etc. on into infinity.

It sounds like it's better to leave armies as single figs for now, if that's the case.

 

[embryodead]

Originally posted by William528
This is GREAT!
Why didn't Firaxis think of this?!

Please don't insult people at Firaxis. It's not the matter of thinking, it's the matter of choice.

Originally posted by BobTheTerrible
My hope for Civ4 is: say you have a Roman legion vs a Greek hoplite. They are only represented by one unit, but when they go into combat, it goes to an RTS type screen, where you have 100 little legions, vs 100 little hoplites. This is much like MOO3. But I realize it could get tedious watching every single battle in a separate screen, which would mak CTP like stacking useful.

Nooooo!
There are hundreds of RTS game which give you opportunity to play battles. Developing a game relies much on the choice what should be detailed and what simplified. You can't have maximum level of detail everywhere not because of lack of programming skills or "intelligence" (like someone surely very intelligent suggested), but because of gameplay issues.

What makes me sad, is that people are more and more concerned about eye-candy effects rather than gameplay. Civ3 is rarity in current games scheme - pressure has been put on gameplay, strategy etc. not graphics. _Wise_ simplicity is the key to success here. If Civ4 turns into something like HoMM or RTS, I won't go for it.

 

[noligoli42]

I'm sure there's a reason for Firaxis to decide not to put multiple units in the first place; what that reason happens to be is beyond me. People are more concerned about eye-candy because eye-candy is becoming (and already is) incredibly realistic. Yes, the gameplay and strategy have been the main issues in Civ3, but the graphics could always be better (for any game, not just Civ3.)

I believe that whether you like the single units or multiple units is a matter of personal preference, and if you don't like it, you don't have to use it. It seems that many people would prefer multiple units, however. The idea of adding in the units that YOU think would look better multiplied is the best one for this situation.

And a RTS version of Civ would be booed down by everybody who's ever been to this site, plus many, many more people.

 

[elementgoo]

Kryten,
when do u thin the mod will be ready?

 

[hbdragon88]

Kryten, that went way over my head. I'm not a computer expert on these things, and certainly not on poking around with the Art folder...

 

[embryodead]

Originally posted by noligoli42
I'm sure there's a reason for Firaxis to decide not to put multiple units in the first place; what that reason happens to be is beyond me. People are more concerned about eye-candy because eye-candy is becoming (and already is) incredibly realistic. Yes, the gameplay and strategy have been the main issues in Civ3, but the graphics could always be better (for any game, not just Civ3.)

Reason? If I had to choose, I would go for single-figures, because it's clear, and game rules do not force higher level of detail. Civ3 seems to be excellent compromise between gameplay and graphics.

I believe that whether you like the single units or multiple units is a matter of personal preference, and if you don't like it, you don't have to use it. It seems that many people would prefer multiple units, however. The idea of adding in the units that YOU think would look better multiplied is the best one for this situation.

Yes choice is ok. Maybe a "rule" for customization is a good idea? As someone suggested, provide multi-figured units separately, in a sub-forum, but release all mods/scenarios in "normal" mode? Plus installer package for users who don't use editor and want to have everything ready?

However, there is still uneasy matter of this idea affecting the future civs

 

[pap1723]

This stuff looks amazing!
I think you guys should make it so that some of the armies look bigger, for example, have units that have 3 infantry, then only 2 infantry and finally only a single unit. This way they could have higher hitpoints and cost more, as if they were actually bigger numbers of units.

Pap

 

[Hygro]

In regards to making armies look cooler related to this thread:

Find an apropriate unit from each era and stick him in the army animation, in place or next to that leader guy. Like, take those six hoplite. Now through them in an army. You'll see those six hoplites next to, say, 2 generic looking ancient age units to make them all fight.

 

[Rickhan]

Kryten,
Keep those creative juices flowing. Your sneak preview of things to come this New Year, is just about the greatest thing i've seen in this forum. I am glad to be alive and see the work of an artist. It will be an honor to play civ. with your creations in the future.
Keep up the Fire!

 

[elementgoo]

since there will be multiple figures, each time a health point is taken a single figure should fall in the group