Aabra02: Hammy Builds a House

[scoutsout]

... Beorn never said that stats were supposed to be used to deceive and manipulate...

Which is why there is a correlation between ice cream sales and the crime rate; and the Humbolt Current in the Pacific Ocean can cause the price of a loaf of bread to rise in Baltimore. Butterfly theory, etc.

@Abra: I thought that was a rather nice peace treaty.

@Team: Are we going to go for the GLib? Might that give us a wonder-triggered GA? Where are we in the order-of-go in this one?

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

I'm up after Aabra, that's for sure.

We'd still be missing a REL wonder for a GA, right?

I suggested Glib much earlier hoping we'd have more contacts, this isn't the case. Right now I wouldn't be adverse to it because it would free our treasury for much needed unit support although it is as much for this as it is because we have no other infra left to build and our economy isn't going to really soar up until we get Republic.

Moreover we are locked in peace for 20, so there is no point in building up 10 units right now that we could build in 10 turns rather than 20, a tidbit later, and that we can't use until the 20 are over. Remaining solution: a wonder.

This way we get to build GLib and free our economy post-republic, we get a library before researching Republic which will help research a lot and we don't clog ourselves with units. Our workers can finish improving the capital before they go take a hike and link us to *our* iron.

Before the pre-build, I'd make something like 2 curraghs and 2 bows, more or less - to be discussed.

Amendments to that plan are welcome, I'll wait for input.

 

[Aabraxan]

Before the pre-build, I'd make something like 2 curraghs and 2 bows, more or less - to be discussed.

Sounds like a plan. I'd just add that I think "boats before bows" in this case, just because maximum value is had out of the GLib by having as many contacts as possible.

Which is why there is a correlation between ice cream sales and the crime rate; and the Humbolt Current in the Pacific Ocean can cause the price of a loaf of bread to rise in Baltimore. Butterfly theory, etc.

Now don't go mixin' and mingling correlation and causation, scout. You know better'n that.

@Abra: I thought that was a rather nice peace treaty.

Thank you. I wasn't sure that it was going to work out, but, with Abu's gold in the mix, I think I came out alright. (At least, I think that pending Beorn's answer to the following.)

@Beorn -- How does the peace treaty put us in a production hole? I'm not sure I quite understand that.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Now we have nothing to build that would be useful: units don't make the cut for peace time and there is no building to build that we don't have. This means that unless we find a way around to get useful shields out, we're just as good idling production and building wealth - bad. Fortunately there are contacts yet to be made (curraghs) and wonders that can help us on the long run (GLib is a worth LOT of gold when you count beakers). So we're good to go.

 

[scoutsout]

Now don't go mixin' and mingling correlation and causation, scout. You know better'n that.

IIRC, it worked like this:

1. The Humboldt Current Shifted
2. The Japanese Sardine fishermen couldn't figure out where the sardines went
3. They wanted to use wheat as a substitute for fish meal until the fishermen could find the sardines again.
4. America (gladly) sold them wheat. Lots of it.
5. The price of bread went up in Baltimore.

 

[Aabraxan]

And ice cream sales?

 

[scoutsout]

And ice cream sales?

Correlation without causation.

Edit: Crime and ice cream sales both go up in warmer weather. The underlying independent variable is temperature.

 

[gmaharriet]

Where are we in the order-of-go in this one?

Roster:

Beorn-eL-Feared - up
scoutsout - on deck
gmaharriet
Bede
Whomp
Aabraxan - just played

@Aabra - Good idea making peace. We certainly weren't going to get anywhere with a war or trying to get techs from Brennus with our weak pointy sticks.

 

[Aabraxan]

Correlation without causation.

Edit: Crime and ice cream sales both go up in warmer weather. The underlying independent variable is temperature.

Like I said, you know better.

I'd never actually heard the Humboldt Current story. Truth be told, don't even know what the Humboldt Current is, except from what I can surmise from your story.

@Beorn -- Gotcha. Now I see what you meant by a production hole.

 

[Bede]

In a One City situation like we have right now, so long as home defense is taken care of, building Wealth is not such a bad idea. It prevents clogging the economy with troops or useless buildings and does give a small boost to the research path. Not something you want to use long term, but useful for short bursts.

However the Beorn plan is even better and makes good use of those twenty turns.

And since I don't think we have a fallback wonder for a GLib prebuild should the Pyramids fall to the big guy to the north or south some boats in the water and then building up a sword force makes mighty good sense.

(And it was the butterfly flexing its wings in California's Imperial Valley that caused the typhoon that shifted the Humboldt Current, that caused the sardines to move to a different spot, forcing the Japanese to buy wheat, raising the price of bread in Baltimore.)

 

[Aabraxan]

. . . . . (And it was the butterfly flexing its wings in California's Imperial Valley that caused the typhoon that shifted the Humboldt Current, that caused the sardines to move to a different spot, forcing the Japanese to buy wheat, raising the price of bread in Baltimore.)

I read that and found myself waiting for: "And all for want of a nail."

Bede, I can't tell from your post if you're advocating going for the GLib or a pack of swords.

 

[Bede]

Bede, I can't tell from your post if you're advocating going for the GLib or a pack of swords.

i was trying to line up behind the Bear's plan, which seems to do exactly that.

 

[gmaharriet]

Bede, I can't tell from your post if you're advocating going for the GLib or a pack of swords.

I was having trouble figuring out exactly what the plan was, as it was rather obscurely hiding among the butterflies. Since Beorn is playing the turn, it should come out alright. I think it means building 2 curraghs, 2 bows and then starting a GLib prebuild, and I think that's what Bede is endorsing.

I'd feel better building up a swordsmen force, when we colonize iron, than clogging ourselves with 2 dozen bowmen until the next war.

Before the pre-build, I'd make something like 2 curraghs and 2 bows, more or less

Fortunately there are contacts yet to be made (curraghs) and wonders that can help us on the long run (GLib is a worth LOT of gold when you count beakers). So we're good to go.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Thanks for covering up against my uncanny ability to be unclear, gma

It is the plan I'm proposing, and as it seems not to make too many waves I'll get on it before hitting the sack tonight.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

Played 9 to even out turn numbers.

Quick rundown:
Sent 2 bowmen for barb gold, one is out in the wild wild west, other stays in the jungle close to home. Running towards philo, got enough gold to cover research expenses. 1 curragh was lost at sea to barbs, 1 bowman to barb horses, 1 barb camp was dispersed for 25g. Pyramids within 19.

Pre-Turn:
By going from 17 to 15 spt we grow in 5 so I'll do that, for 3 curraghs

Send our 3/3 bowman out for some games with barbs in the untamed west. He's going to go earn his upkeep cost.

T1.
curragh out

T2.
curragh out

T3.
curragh out

T4.
Bowman in the jungle finds a barb horse that beats his odds.

T5.
Barb galley meets its maker as our curragh races west, 3/3 dinghy.

T6.
Bowman #2 of my set goes out after a turn of deficit population for 20spt.

Got the choice between deficit population, 20spt and growth, 19 spt. I would have done 20 for faster GLib but then we could have lost a turn on philo so I decide against.

Pyramids in 21 it is.

T7.
This turn our curragh is not as lucky and the barbs get the best of it.

T9.
QSC stats: 1 city, 12 pop
3 workers, bows, spears, warriors
4 curraghs

Irrigating the remaining grass will be worth our while when the later times of food deprivation knock at the door. This is why I bothered to road the tile. It often happens in OCC that we want to avoid wasting turns on large overflow builds (like my 32 shields bowman on turn 4) so going on starvation - growth cycles solves some of that problem and growth is faster when we have "backup" grass tiles that are irrigated.

I don't know what's up next for the workers: iron (my pick), mountain or irrigations, but I do know that we'll starve the city down at some point, for shields. Also, on the long run, we have 2 plain tiles that could use a mine: 1 food cost for 2 shields is better than 2 food cost (1 citizen requires 2 food but gathers 0 on the mountain tile, thus the cost) for 3 shields until there is coal or uranium over the peak.

Disperse a barb camp in the jungle just NE, we do need the gold.

If we weren't out of troops I'd suggest sending another bowman out in the wilderness but we just might be able to make do with borrowed gold from Bre and Abu with the tech flow and their own barb hunts. We have one going to the far-west, the other has dispersed the nearby camp and is close to home for a coming back.

The state of exploration:

Philo due in 6, got 94g -15gpt meaning we won't be bankrupt until after we have got our tech(s?).

Roster:
Aabraxan -
Beorn-eL-Feared - just played
scoutsout - up
gmaharriet - on deck
Bede
Whomp

 

[gmaharriet]

As an ignorant student, I have some general comments/questions. This is NOT a critique of anyone's playing.

I've never tried any xCC and have only skimmed most of the SGs for them. I did, however, read Bede04A, 04B and 04C, which were all 1BC games. My impression of the Bede series was that the player civ sorta sat back waiting for the AIs to build towns close to the capitol, grow to size 2, and take them over with an archer/bow rush. With our terrain, it seems unlikely the AI will snuggle up very close for that sort of early grab.

I guess I'm asking for a general overview on what we think we're going to do. Do we have a general plan, or is it too early to determine that? I'm more than a little confused.

 

[Bede]

This is starting to look more and more like an OCC going for 20K. We may acquire other cities in the later going but the nearby inhospitable terrain makes proximity doubtful.

If I had to pick a target it would be Brennus and let's hope he has a bunch of floodplains and food down south of the mountains so we can grow out some tax farms.

 

[Beorn-eL-Feared]

We'll have opportunities for a bow rush (hopefully with sword/MDI support) à la Bede04 as soon as there are cities nearby. This is not yet the case and we already are at deficit just running research. Getting GLB allows us to do 0 research all the way through to probably knights and gunpowder, effectively increasing our potential for the upcoming build-up.

Had we done archers right off the bath, we would have had little say in the matter of where our new colonies may have been, and maybe nobody would have settled close to the capital ever at all. Risking it all for a handful of small cities - many of which are bound to autoraze after a whip or two - so the AI proximity and the mountain chain obstacle are factors that

Doing archers right now would mean an economic crash, a technological hole and a big gamble on the archers' success paired along with a despotic GA. Not to sound grim, but the timing isn't great right there. We would get increased shields from hills and grass, but no gold.

If we manage to hold out for our GA until we get to republic, we'll make 1 turn MDI's and this is some major league hurt for Brennus. So that's where we are.

Back to the Bede04 games, it was not an issue in A, little concern in C but B looks more or less like this - they went for one AI that was kindof far away (the Celts, there as well) and captured a couple of towns back homewards. The terrain in-between, however, was flatlands with a couple of hills and flood plains - not thick mountain chains. If we look at Own12 (5BC deity, just finished), the incas were right up there on our doorstep. We barely bothered with the capital, we didn't even build our 5 cities and we jumped in with archers. Again, flatlands and close-by AI. This terrain would have been so much better for something other than a 1BC game

 

[gmaharriet]

Thanks, guys! I just wanted to be sure I wasn't missing something obvious...a grand plan that everyone else but me could see. (I'm not paranoid...not at all. I'm just FINE!!! Mwahahahaha! )

 

[Aabraxan]

. . . . a grand plan that everyone else but me could see. . . . .

No, not everyone else could see it . Now that it's been shown to me, however, it sounds like a good plan.