Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
The investigation is the best sanity-preserving move and it'll tell us if we have the time to research both techs or if we need to trade/steal for it.
Aabra02: Hammy Builds a House
- Thread starter Aabraxan
- Start date
I knew that I'd posted something, somewhere at some time or other. It's just a shame that I couldn't be more specific! (10 bonus points if you recognise the map BTW. I'm pretty sure that some of you may well have played it. It was one of my favorite maps of that era.)
Having stopped to think, this is what I believe we should do:
However I really do think that this is a critical decision and so I still would like to pause for further opinions (or pass onto BEF). Mecca is capable of 30spt at the moment (60 with a factory and a power plant if we go on a successful stealing spree!) so we need 20 turns to complete it.
Having stopped to think, this is what I believe we should do:
1. Investigate the city. If we have time to beat them to the wonder then we should build it and let them waste their shields.
2. If we cannot beat them to the wonder but we can attack them before it is completed, then Canton is where we kick off the war. I think that they should be our next target anyway but this case doesn't give us any option as to where to start the conquest.
3. If they are due to complete the wonder before the deal expires then we switch off research and start to steal techs from them. Starting with Electricity but who knows, we may actually succeed so we need to be prepared for more spying activity. We may need to wind them up a bit so that if we fail to steal the tech, we get what we want which is a declaration rather than them just getting a bit unhappier with us. (Is that in the spirit of the game?)
2. If we cannot beat them to the wonder but we can attack them before it is completed, then Canton is where we kick off the war. I think that they should be our next target anyway but this case doesn't give us any option as to where to start the conquest.
3. If they are due to complete the wonder before the deal expires then we switch off research and start to steal techs from them. Starting with Electricity but who knows, we may actually succeed so we need to be prepared for more spying activity. We may need to wind them up a bit so that if we fail to steal the tech, we get what we want which is a declaration rather than them just getting a bit unhappier with us. (Is that in the spirit of the game?)
However I really do think that this is a critical decision and so I still would like to pause for further opinions (or pass onto BEF). Mecca is capable of 30spt at the moment (60 with a factory and a power plant if we go on a successful stealing spree!) so we need 20 turns to complete it.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Investigate first, then
a) snag ToE from their hands if we can build it first
b) go berzerk with Canton if we can't, head up for a factory steal and keep ToE for later, as late as we can.
Either way, we want to be on top of things as much as possible, whether or not it means we have to gift China with Fission when UN-time comes.
a) snag ToE from their hands if we can build it first
b) go berzerk with Canton if we can't, head up for a factory steal and keep ToE for later, as late as we can.
Either way, we want to be on top of things as much as possible, whether or not it means we have to gift China with Fission when UN-time comes.
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
I'm not so sure we need ToE to win this one... it'll work just as well if we capture it. We could let the Chinese build it for us. 
Aside from the sheer fun of capturing cities, how does the ToE work if you capture it?
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
It doesn't 
scoutsout
Minstrel Boy
Are you absolutely sure about that? I could swear I've captured it in personal games and gotten 2 free techs.It doesn't
Civilopedia entry: 'Grants two civilisation advances as soon as completed'
If we want those free techs, we need to build it. I guess the question is how badly do we want them?
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Just made a simulation from this file and I confirm the UN is capturable but not the ToE.
China and Iroquois are tweaked: Iroquois start with 15 MA's and China starts with Masonry, tech which enables UN and ToE. They built both, I captured both, nothing happened until 12 turns later the election popped up.
As for wanting them, don't we want to go to war with China, motive or not?
China and Iroquois are tweaked: Iroquois start with 15 MA's and China starts with Masonry, tech which enables UN and ToE. They built both, I captured both, nothing happened until 12 turns later the election popped up.
As for wanting them, don't we want to go to war with China, motive or not?
1400AD
So, 15 turns left for them to build ToE. Our deals last for another 12 turns which means that we don't have to break our deals or get them to declare on us. We'll need a decent force to attack though as they currently have four infantry there. I decide to continue research of Electricity but we may decide to try and steal a couple of techs from China after this. I Squeeze it down to four more turns and stop there, putting the decision onto the next turn set. Mecca can have a Cathedral to enable decent pop growth and then cavs for the attack.
1405AD Babylon completes its hospital so it starts a palace prebuild for ToE. China completes sanitation; no wonder that I couldn't get much for it from them.
1415AD CAII is not giving me good info on research. It says that I need two turns when I only need one (not too unusual when things are pretty tight) but even more strangely, by employing a couple of scientists I can even drop research by 10%!
This looks like a good point to stop so I'll pass my remaining two turns onto the next player-are you OK with that BEF? We need to decide if we are going to research or steal techs. Also picking up now means that you can then start to plan as well as execute the attack. Note that Canton is on a hill so we'll need a decent force. Maybe we need a few cannons? Please feel free to change any of those builds that I set up as I still feel as if I'm only just getting into the game.
One final point; I have set up a palace prebuild in Babylon but it's not too late to switch it to military if you want. If we take Canton, we won't need to hurry, maybe?
Spoiler Investigation of Canton :
So, 15 turns left for them to build ToE. Our deals last for another 12 turns which means that we don't have to break our deals or get them to declare on us. We'll need a decent force to attack though as they currently have four infantry there. I decide to continue research of Electricity but we may decide to try and steal a couple of techs from China after this. I Squeeze it down to four more turns and stop there, putting the decision onto the next turn set. Mecca can have a Cathedral to enable decent pop growth and then cavs for the attack.
1405AD Babylon completes its hospital so it starts a palace prebuild for ToE. China completes sanitation; no wonder that I couldn't get much for it from them.
1415AD CAII is not giving me good info on research. It says that I need two turns when I only need one (not too unusual when things are pretty tight) but even more strangely, by employing a couple of scientists I can even drop research by 10%!
This looks like a good point to stop so I'll pass my remaining two turns onto the next player-are you OK with that BEF? We need to decide if we are going to research or steal techs. Also picking up now means that you can then start to plan as well as execute the attack. Note that Canton is on a hill so we'll need a decent force. Maybe we need a few cannons? Please feel free to change any of those builds that I set up as I still feel as if I'm only just getting into the game.
One final point; I have set up a palace prebuild in Babylon but it's not too late to switch it to military if you want. If we take Canton, we won't need to hurry, maybe?
with 600 shields worth of infantry and artillery we ought to be able to extort the two techs China will get for the ToE (or even cavalry and cannon for that matter). So instead of trying to finagle a prebuild of the dem thing let's just whack on the Chinese
We are not going for a space win here so the gains to us from ToE are illusory. What's more important is to have China waste their production on a building that isn't going to keep them alive at the end of the game.
We are not going for a space win here so the gains to us from ToE are illusory. What's more important is to have China waste their production on a building that isn't going to keep them alive at the end of the game.
gmaharriet
Ancient Crone
Good job playing, Tone, and a nice analysis of what's happening. 
It's always extra hard to jump into an ongoing game.
As usual, Bede takes the pressure off all of us by seeing the forest, not the trees.
Anybody doubt we're going to win this game?
Roster Update:
Beorn-eL-Feared - up
scoutsout - on deck
gmaharriet -
Bede -
Whomp -
Tone - just played
Aabraxan - indefinite lurker status
It's always extra hard to jump into an ongoing game.As usual, Bede takes the pressure off all of us by seeing the forest, not the trees.
Anybody doubt we're going to win this game? with 600 shields worth of infantry and artillery we ought to be able to extort the two techs China will get for the ToE (or even cavalry and cannon for that matter). So instead of trying to finagle a prebuild of the dem thing let's just whack on the Chinese
We are not going for a space win here so the gains to us from ToE are illusory. What's more important is to have China waste their production on a building that isn't going to keep them alive at the end of the game.
Roster Update:
Beorn-eL-Feared - up
scoutsout - on deck
gmaharriet -
Bede -
Whomp -
Tone - just played
Aabraxan - indefinite lurker status
That was what I was implying when I said
How do you guys feel about trying to steal, or should we research on our own steam (maybe Rep Parts for infantry/artillery)?
However, your direction is pretty clear.
If we can hit them before they complete it that might be quite useful. My only concern about an attack on China will be the vunerability of our galleons and they might have destroyers; especially if we delay too long and the free techs push them in that direction. Even worse would be a few bombers!with 600 shields worth of infantry and artillery we ought to be able to extort the two techs China will get for the ToE (or even cavalry and cannon for that matter). So instead of trying to finagle a prebuild of the dem thing let's just whack on the Chinese
How do you guys feel about trying to steal, or should we research on our own steam (maybe Rep Parts for infantry/artillery)?
Steam came in on my last set as the free tech and the rail net should be done and China had no native coal.
RepParts is an excellent steal candidiate, or a push to reseach it on our own would be worth it.
China has been so wonder addicted that they can't have that much of an army, though they may have included Sun's and Leo's in their grab bag of goodies, so they may be able to recover pretty quickly.
There is a small Chinese island not far from our southern border (off the coast of old Celtia) that would provide a fine leap frog landing zone as it is only one or two turns from our coast. Using a variant of the "Beach Babe" tactic we could bemuse any squids that China may have patrolling the waters around that island by keeping an empty galleon within sight of the Chinese fleet but tantalizlingly out of attack range.
RepParts is an excellent steal candidiate, or a push to reseach it on our own would be worth it.
China has been so wonder addicted that they can't have that much of an army, though they may have included Sun's and Leo's in their grab bag of goodies, so they may be able to recover pretty quickly.
There is a small Chinese island not far from our southern border (off the coast of old Celtia) that would provide a fine leap frog landing zone as it is only one or two turns from our coast. Using a variant of the "Beach Babe" tactic we could bemuse any squids that China may have patrolling the waters around that island by keeping an empty galleon within sight of the Chinese fleet but tantalizlingly out of attack range.
gmaharriet
Ancient Crone
I think you two are speaking about two different types of steam. 
Tone said:
Bede said:
