Abandon all hope ye who enter...

[woodelf]

And lawyers.

 

[Niccolo]

And lawyers.

I think I'm going to go skin a damned lawyer right now!

Ah... the jokes will just keep coming...

 

[Rabbit_Alex]

I think I'm going to go skin a damned lawyer right now!

You could use the modern great merchant. It kind of looks like a businessman/lawyer.

 

[Mr.Earl]

You know, you could probably make a Venus mod with this terrain, mabye even a Sun mod!

 

[Civmansam]

Absolutely fantastic Mod

 

[Niccolo]

Just to note, this mod isn't anywhere near playable yet. The screen shots are basically 5 reskinned tiles on a map made with the world builder , one new unit added, two .dds files for the main screen interface.

What I'd like to accomplish before I release version 0.1 is

Add 7 civilizations
Add Demon units that are already available
Add Damned (Undead) units that are already available
Create basic tech tree, 4 or 5 levels deep
Add basic factions (new names and graphics for religions)
Add basic civics
Add hell map script

There is a lot of XML work here, and a bit of python; but it should be within my ability. Once that is all done, at least there will be something to play.

Eventually, I want to change all the icons, the overall interface to something other than navy blue, and all of the resources. I imagine with 0.1 there just won't be any resources. I haven't even really figured out what I would want The Damned as a resources to look like in the raw and tormented. I might end up just having fields of writhing maggots.

 

[tombeef]

wow, great, creative idea, blew me away.

Speaking of Paradise lost, how about a His Dark Materials anyone?

Good luck, will have to try this one out.

 

[Dryhad]

Speaking of Paradise lost, how about a His Dark Materials anyone?

You'd really need a Test of Time style set up to do it properly. I suppose you could have just one world, and not have any major story elements (for example, Lyra's world). I shouldn't think Pullman's "hell" would be a good mod, though.

 

[tombeef]

You'd really need a Test of Time style set up to do it properly. I suppose you could have just one world, and not have any major story elements (for example, Lyra's world). I shouldn't think Pullman's "hell" would be a good mod, though.

True, true. SDK would help. Still, an interesting setting, I think (except for the "hell", that part did kinda suck).

 

[woodelf]

The Damned resource makes me think of Diablo2 and the chained up people on the ground.

 

[Niccolo]

The Damned resource makes me think of Diablo2 and the chained up people on the ground.

Yeah, but I want to have a lot of different kinds of sinners being tormented in different ways. I know for suicides it'll be easy since we can use reskinned forest. Having folks chained to the ground sounds like what needs to be there to represent that the resource is being "harvested". I'm tempted just to reskin the pig resource. Maybe for version 0.1 we can just have a generic damned chained to the ground.

Another idea I had was to change the mouse icon to a trident or pitchfork.

 

[Niccolo]

Just some ideas I was having.

I want to make the game a bit more like chess. The starting leader unit, an infernal lord, will be the only character a player has that can create settlements. However, if you loose your infernal lord, you loose the game. This is to represent the bonding of the infernal lord with the spiritual landscape and establishing dominion. It'll also encourage the player to move this unit out of a well defended city and into harms way for the potential of expanding the realm.

I'm also thinking of dispensing with the "worker" unit, and instead starting the players with a devilish slaver armed with a whip (maybe the demon maceman sans spikey ball) that can work resource tiles, has a low over all attack, but a special attack bonus versus damned units and upon defeated a damned unit in battle can enslave that unit (that starts in the new owners control with little health). Also let the slaver unit have an option to be spent to quell a rebellious city.

Other ideas I'm having is that the secret of Lust allows for the creation of succubi/incubi units that can seduce a unit into a new owner's control.

Also for the secret of Greed having a unit that can bribe other units that push them out of current ownership and into the mercenary market.

Perhaps units with the "Sloth" promotion will be immune to seduction, while unites with the "Pride" promotion will be immune to bribery.

 

[woodelf]

I like the slaver unit idea. I can see that working.

And for some reason my mind keeps drifting to Acts IV and V in D2 for the models in this mod. Succubi, Slavers, Damned, ect.

 

[Tunch Khan]

Bravo. (for real, this is not a spam)

 

[Thasis]

The Council of Pandemonium (The UN)

PAndemonium actualy has little to do with hell. They're seprate planes of exsistinance on there own that aren't directly related in any way (if my extensive knowledge of Arcana Infernal is correct).

Also, I can tell you like Cradle of Filth with the phrase "Better to reign in hell, then to serve in heaven". It's good to see other Filth fans on the CivFanatics boards.

Also, I might be able to contribute ideas in the near future, as I do have an extensive intrest and knowledge in hell, hades, and celestia and I also have a fair amount of research abilities.

 

[catwhowalksbyhi]

Actually, that quote comes from Paradise Lost.

 

[Niccolo]

PAndemonium actualy has little to do with hell. They're seprate planes of exsistinance on there own that aren't directly related in any way (if my extensive knowledge of Arcana Infernal is correct).

While this statement might be true for the D&D planar cosmology, it is not true from what I would like to use as primary sources for this mod; in particular... Milton's Paradise Lost

Meanwhile the winged Heralds, by command
Of sovereign power, with awful ceremony
And trumpet's sound, throughout the host proclaim
A solemn council forthwith to be held
At Pandemonium, the high capital
Of Satan and his peers.

Book I, Paradise Lost

If your joint power prevail, the affairs of Hell
No detriment need fear; go, and be strong!
So saying he dismissed them; they with speed
Their course through thickest constellations held,
Spreading their bane; the blasted stars looked wan,
And planets, planet-struck, real eclipse
Then suffered. The other way Satan went down
The causey to Hell-gate: On either side
Disparted Chaos overbuilt exclaimed,
And with rebounding surge the bars assailed,
That scorned his indignation: Through the gate,
Wide open and unguarded, Satan passed,
And all about found desolate; for those,
Appointed to sit there, had left their charge,
Flown to the upper world; the rest were all
Far to the inland retired, about the walls
Of Pandemonium; city and proud seat
Of Lucifer, so by allusion called
Of that bright star to Satan paragoned;
There kept their watch the legions, while the Grand
In council sat, solicitous what chance
Might intercept their emperour sent; so he
Departing gave command, and they observed.

Book X Paradise Lost

And this summary from Cliff Notes:

The final part of Book I is the construction of Pandemonium, the capital of Hell. A certain unintentional humor pervades this section of Book I as well as Mammon’s argument in Book II. In both cases, a sense of civic pride seems to overcome the devils, and they act on the idea that “Hell is bad, but with a few improvements we can make it lots better, even attractive.” In both Mammon and the hellish architect, Mulciber, the attitude of the mayor whose small town has been bypassed by the Interstate comes out. They both seem to think that with improvements Hell may be nice enough that others may want to relocate.

Milton’s real goal here, though, is to establish Hell’s capital, Pandemonium—a word which Milton himself coined from the Latin pan (all) and demonium (demons). Thus, the capital of Hell is literally the place of all demons. With the passage of time, the word came to mean any place of wild disorder, noise, and confusion. This idea is subtly emphasized with Milton’s choice of Mulciber as the architect. Mulciber was another name for Hephaestus, the Greek God of the Forge, who was tossed from Olympus by a drunken Zeus. Mulciber is consequently a figure of some ridicule and not the most likely architect to build a lasting monument.

One other aspect of the construction of Pandemonium is worth consideration. Mammon and the other devils find mineral resources including gemstones in their search for building materials. This discovery of resources suggests that the Hell Milton has imagined is a multifaceted place. In the first scene, as Satan and the others lie chained on the burning lake, Hell seems totally a place of fiery torture and ugliness. The construction of Pandemonium shows that there is more to Hell. Geographic features such as a plain and hill, mineral resources such as gemstones, and even the possibility for beauty seem to exist in Hell. Other aspects of Hell will be brought forward in later books. All in all, Milton depicts a Hell that has more than one essence, or, at least in the opening books, seems to.

Also, I can tell you like Cradle of Filth with the phrase "Better to reign in hell, then to serve in heaven". It's good to see other Filth fans on the CivFanatics boards.

Actually, I'm not a Cradle of Filfth fan. My own tastes run more in gothic, industrial, electronic and noise genres; and perhaps some Johnny Cash Good for Cradle of Filfth to have adopted such a profound statement for their lyrics--it is actually a quote from Milton.

Whom reason hath equalled, force hath made supreme
Above his equals. Farewell, happy fields,
Where joy for ever dwells! Hail, horrors! hail,
Infernal world! and thou, profoundest Hell,
Receive thy new possessor--one who brings
A mind not to be changed by place or time.
The mind is its own place, and in itself
Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.
What matter where, if I be still the same,
And what I should be, all but less than he
Whom thunder hath made greater? Here at least
We shall be free; th' Almighty hath not built
Here for his envy, will not drive us hence:
Here we may reign secure; and, in my choice,
To reign is worth ambition, though in Hell:
Better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven.
But wherefore let we then our faithful friends,
Th' associates and co-partners of our loss,
Lie thus astonished on th' oblivious pool,
And call them not to share with us their part
In this unhappy mansion, or once more
With rallied arms to try what may be yet
Regained in Heaven, or what more lost in Hell?"

Book I, Paradise Lost

I believe the quote re-entered pop culture discourse with the Star Trek episode with Khan where at the end after Khan has been left as an exile, he asks Kirk if he has read Milton. Kirk responds that he had, and understood. Then Kirk explains with that quote.

Also, I might be able to contribute ideas in the near future, as I do have an extensive intrest and knowledge in hell, hades, and celestia and I also have a fair amount of research abilities.

I welcome your contributions, really I do, despite me coming down strong with my own knowledge of infernology. I'm sure we'll be drawing from some D&D Planar Cosmology partly because that has left such a rich amount of information that is specifically created for gaming and that many of the players and builders of this mod will be familiar. However, I'd also like to encourage folks to read other apocrypha, as I think they will find it as fascinating as I do.

 

[Niccolo]

Actually, that quote comes from Paradise Lost.

Glad to see that others know the text!

 

[Niccolo]

Actually, this bit reminds me that we need not limit Hell to purely a place of the damned as the sole resource, but that there are other resources to be found....

Cliff Notes:
One other aspect of the construction of Pandemonium is worth consideration. Mammon and the other devils find mineral resources including gemstones in their search for building materials. This discovery of resources suggests that the Hell Milton has imagined is a multifaceted place. In the first scene, as Satan and the others lie chained on the burning lake, Hell seems totally a place of fiery torture and ugliness. The construction of Pandemonium shows that there is more to Hell. Geographic features such as a plain and hill, mineral resources such as gemstones, and even the possibility for beauty seem to exist in Hell. Other aspects of Hell will be brought forward in later books. All in all, Milton depicts a Hell that has more than one essence, or, at least in the opening books, seems to.

 

[Niccolo]

As he our darkness, cannot we his light
Imitate when we please? This desert soil
Wants not her hidden lustre, gems and gold;
Nor want we skill or art from whence to raise
Magnificence; and what can Heaven show more?
Our torments also may, in length of time,
Become our elements, these piercing fires
As soft as now severe, our temper changed
Into their temper; which must needs remove
The sensible of pain. All things invite
To peaceful counsels, and the settled state
Of order, how in safety best we may
Compose our present evils, with regard
Of what we are and where, dismissing quite
All thoughts of war. Ye have what I advise.

So, gems and gold as well. Maybe currency is back in the mod. Thoughts? Shall we have a lot of traditional resources like gemstones and gold, and keep currency. Currency would definitely make the greedy Mammonites happy... or at least sinful.