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Decadent, Humanist, or Both?

Pontiuth Pilate

Republican Jesus!
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Taking stock in the Lord
Cambridge professor claims "Lust is not a sin".

http://channels.netscape.com/ns/news/package.jsp?name=fte/lust/lust

Should Lust Really Be a Sin?

Lust is one of the seven deadly sins first identified by Pope Gregory the Great in the 6th century. He nailed them all: Lust, anger, envy, gluttony, sloth, pride, and greed. It's a cornucopia of bad living.

But hold on! A leading philosopher at Britain's Cambridge University says lust has been wrongly branded as a vice and should be "reclaimed for humanity" as the life-affirming virtue that it is.

Professor Simon Blackburn told the London Sunday Times that lust has gotten a bad name from bad ideology that has hindered its "freedom of flow." His quest is to rescue lust, arguing it has been wrongly condemned for centuries. And he has a prestigious backer: The Oxford University Press, which will publish Blackburn's project on the modern relevance of the seven deadly sins, including lust.

Blackburn told the Times that he wants to save lust "from the denunciations of old men of the deserts, to deliver it from the pallid and envious confessor, and the stocks and pillories of the Puritans, to drag it from the category of sin to that of virtue."

How does he plan to do this? He defines lust as "the enthusiastic desire for sexual activity and its pleasures for its own sake." But if lust is reciprocated, that leads to pleasure and "best flourishes when unencumbered by bad philosophy and ideology...which prevent its freedom of flow."

Here is Blackburn's logic at work: Thirst is not considered sin, nor is it criticized. But thirst can lead to drunkenness. In the same way, lust should not be condemned just because it can go unchecked.

"The important thing is that generally anything that gives pleasure has a presumption in its favor," Blackburn explained to the Times. "The question is how we control it."
 
Sin is human thing to do. While Church officially condemns sin, most of its members are sinners.
And I often date "sinful" girls who are top believers but behave different in bedroom.
 
Lust by itself is not a bad thing; it's when it turns into an addiction that it becomes unhealthy.
 
Like most taboos in Christianity, there was a pragmatism at one time, to avoiding them. Now it is simply tradition. Yes, gratification of lust can be fun, but it is usually fleeting, momentary, and distracting from things that are lasting and constructive.

Temperance works well. Most Christians ignore that. Extreme aesceticism is not temperance, nor is celibacy before marriage.
 
Why wouldn't lust be a sin?

Lust isn't sexual desire. Lust is an over-abundance of sexual desire. If you lust after someone (is that the right usage?) you're obsessed with them to an unhealty point...

He seems to be mistaking lust for plain old sexual attraction...
 
I don't even see why an obsessive, unhealthy lust, or anything for that matter, would be considered a sin. It's unhealthy, yes, but a sin? If I were God I would make things that harm others sins, not things that harm yourself and yourself only. Assuming sins are punishable (and they are/can be, right?), it's as if self-harm is a double wammy; you not only harm yourself, but you (can) go to hell for it! :confused:
Originally posted by cgannon64
Lust isn't sexual desire. Lust is an over-abundance of sexual desire. If you lust after someone (is that the right usage?) you're obsessed with them to an unhealty point...
Obsessed with them? Hmm, does that mean many fundamentalist Christians sin by being too obsessed with God? ;)
Originally posted by newfangle
I still don't know what a sin actually is.
I don't quite understand it either.
 
Originally posted by andvruss
One can never be too obsessed with God. :)
Why not? Why can't it get unhealthy like being obsessed with sex can?
 
You're not trying to have sex with God. :p
 
Originally posted by WillJ
I don't even see why an obsessive, unhealthy lust, or anything for that matter, would be considered a sin. It's unhealthy, yes, but a sin? If I were God I would make things that harm others sins, not things that harm yourself and yourself only. Assuming sins are punishable (and they are/can be, right?), it's as if self-harm is a double wammy; you not only harm yourself, but you (can) go to hell for it! :confused:

I never understand this argument fully. Why shouldn't hurting yourself be a sin? You are a person. You have a right to live in peace and happiness, and destroying your own happiness is just as wrong as destroying anyone else's.

You only have slightly more power over your own happiness as you do over anyone elses. Its easy to kill yourself or to depress yourself, but its just as easy to do the same to someone else.

EDIT: I'm not sure I beleive that 100% its mainly a little thinking out loud. But hurting yourself is certainly not a virtue, and I don't see how it is neutral either. For example, if you let your best friend destroy himself through drugs or whatever, don't you feel guilty? Don't you - and him - have a responsability to help him?

Anyway, who says lust only harms yourself? If you lust after a person it is bound to damage your relationship with them...

Obsessed with them? Hmm, does that mean many fundamentalist Christians sin by being too obsessed with God? ;)

They're not really obsessed with God, they just apply Him in too many situations, and skew His words too many times.

Anyway, it seems to me that it would be pretty damn hard to get obsessed too much with God. Getting obsessed with sex is wrong because you turn it into an idol which will always let you down. You can worship sex as a God, but it can't love you back.

God, however, can. Being obsessed with something is turning it into a false God - but God is God already.
 
yippie I only commit 6 deadly sins on a regular basis now:crazyeye: *hails the great god of technicalities and loopholes*
 
Originally posted by cgannon64

Lust isn't sexual desire. Lust is an over-abundance of sexual desire.

This sentence is a logical fallacy. Its like saying a Cadillac isn't a car, its an overabundance of car. Silly :crazyeye:
 
Originally posted by cgannon64
I never understand this argument fully. Why shouldn't hurting yourself be a sin? You are a person. You have a right to live in peace and happiness, and destroying your own happiness is just as wrong as destroying anyone else's.

You only have slightly more power over your own happiness as you do over anyone elses. Its easy to kill yourself or to depress yourself, but its just as easy to do the same to someone else.
Yes, harming yourself is bad because it, well, harms yourself. You've already paid the price (suffering), why should God damn you for it? The reason God damns people, from what I understand, is to bring justice to the world. Justice is automatically served when someone harms him/herself; he/she is both the victim and the offender.
Originally posted by cgannon64
EDIT: I'm not sure I beleive that 100% its mainly a little thinking out loud. But hurting yourself is certainly not a virtue, and I don't see how it is neutral either. For example, if you let your best friend destroy himself through drugs or whatever, don't you feel guilty? Don't you - and him - have a responsability to help him?
That's not a good example, because I (in this scenario) am a second party; if I let harm happen to my friend I deserve to be punished, and if the friend harms himself he deserves to be punished, but already is in the fact that he's being harmed.
Originally posted by cgannon64
Anyway, who says lust only harms yourself? If you lust after a person it is bound to damage your relationship with them...
Good point. Well, pretend we've been talking about video games instead of sex. ;)
Originally posted by cgannon64
Anyway, it seems to me that it would be pretty damn hard to get obsessed too much with God. Getting obsessed with sex is wrong because you turn it into an idol which will always let you down. You can worship sex as a God, but it can't love you back.

God, however, can. Being obsessed with something is turning it into a false God - but God is God already.
Okay, I get your point, but what about becoming obsessed with a person who loves you back?
 
Originally posted by newfangle


This sentence is a logical fallacy. Its like saying a Cadillac isn't a car, its an overabundance of car. Silly :crazyeye:

It isn't at all. Sexual desire is something there are differnet quantitites of - you can have non, or a little, or you can be totally obsessed. Would you not say that being absolutely obsessed with someone physically and not mentally, thinking about their body and not their mind all the time is unhealthy?

EDIT: You're actually kind of right, I worded it a little wrong. It makes more sense if I say "Lust isn't sexual desire. It is an obsession with sexual desire." Its not really the quantity but the quality - is the desire an aspect of a relationship, or the entire relationship?

Yes, harming yourself is bad because it, well, harms yourself. You've already paid the price (suffering), why should God damn you for it? The reason God damns people, from what I understand, is to bring justice to the world. Justice is automatically served when someone harms him/herself; he/she is both the victim and the offender.

The reason I take people going to Heaven or Hell is because they have been corrupted. I see someone in Hell as someone who refused to realize their mistakes. Someone who didnt' just sin, but sinned and then let the sin change them.

Obviously in this case a self-destructive person would go to hell not because they have hurt themselves, but because in hurting themselves they've destroyed what good parts they had.

Okay, I get your point, but what about becoming obsessed with a person who loves you back?

In that case I doubt it would be lust, really. If you love someone, you love them mentally AND phsyically, and the physical part is almost icing on the cake - its not necessary, but it helps. ;) If you are in love with someone and you also like their body, you're probably not obsessed with their body more than their mind...

I see lust as eliminating the person who lies behind the body and instead focusing solely on that.
 
Originally posted by newfangle


This sentence is a logical fallacy. Its like saying a Cadillac isn't a car, its an overabundance of car. Silly :crazyeye:
No, but a Hummer (especially those Hummer limos) are certainly overabundances of car! :p I can expect people trying to attack each other Hummers in a quasi-warfare scenario.

Anyway, you can sin by harming yourself because it usually does harm others, like family, who watch you do that to yourself.
 
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