About China

KingKHAN said:
It's a game, people really need to get over themselves, seriously, I'm an Aboriginal of Canada, we lost our land to Europian Settlers a couple hundred years ago, our reserves are in poverty that of compared to 3rd world countries, statistics compile that more then 70% of inmates in Canada (some 32,000) are Aboriginals, the suicide rate in Canada is ever increasing as poverty on the reserves gets tougher, mainly drug overdoses...

My ancestors, the Aboriginal peoples whom founded North America some 40,000 years ago during the ice age were the first ones here, when most of North America was frozen solid with high, high glaciers covering most the land, we migrated here over the Bering Straits (at the time was solid ground leading from Northern Asia to North America). We were considered to be Heathens to the Europian Settles (Christians). We weren't aloud to believe in the spirits of our ancestors and of the living mother nature around us, for that is heathen gods in their opinions and we'd have been arrested. The Elders tell of many stories of persecution from each generation to the next, and from them to us. They hunted, and slaughtered us if we did not comply with their demands. This may have been along time ago, but isn't China and Germany better now? Haven't your countries healed from the persecutions of your past? This hate is still strong in Canada, the government is less and less forgiving each passing day, stealing land claims and land from us daily. Benefits? You have got to be kidding me... Yes you may hear of free taxes, free college... Your wrong, we get off provincial taxes in CERTAIN provinces and only at a handful of stores. College/University for free? I don't thinkso, out of thousands of aboriginals, 1 will be chosen for a free $10,000 per year(for 4 years) for higher education. Nobody really cares nor seems to interested in the persecution that happens to this very day, no we may not have suffered recently as horribly as some of you have, but for hundreds of years Aboriginals have been discriminated against, murdered and robbed of our lands, the culture, and the civilization, though maybe not as technologically advanced as Europians, we were still entitled to the land of which we founded. We were forced to follow the Europian ways of life, or be dealt with accordingly.

Now you may all completely deny this, but it is factual and did happen and to this day is still happening on reserves across Canada, not sure of the Americans ways but here, we are still persecuted. Had not been for us helping the Europian settlers whom had never experienced Canada's harsh winters, (we gave furs and other neccessities to). They would have died by winter time. We opened our doors to welcome the newcomers, and what do they do? Stab us in the back and take control of our land. When I see a movie like Last of the Mohicans, I am happy to see Natives resist the persecution. Yes, I feel your pain and know of the discrimination you once faced, times before you were alive. . . I am experiencing this, and my elders have experienced this first hand. I was quite irritated when they removed the Iroquois from Civ4. So don't tell me you have it hard, try growing up on a poverty struck reserve and being persecuted by police whom thrive pride and joy to patrol around the reserves and jump on any oppurtunity to arrest an Aboriginal. Well, I am calmly addressing this so you know, I accept this because quite frankly there is little that can be done about it. I don't cry about it though.

same thing, the western humiliated chinese in the past, and people suffers.
palaces pillaged, took all the gold, stole many master art pieces. thats why u see ancient chinese art pieces in british musuems, and they claims theirs.
proof : the Old Summer Palace/圆明园
now a great leader have arise and united china as a strong nation, no body would dare to be aggressive on her(except japan)
 
panzooka said:
same thing, the western humiliated chinese in the past, and people suffers.
palaces pillaged, took all the gold, stole many master art pieces. thats why u see ancient chinese art pieces in british musuems, and they claims theirs.
proof : the Old Summer Palace/圆明园
now a great leader have arise and united china as a strong nation, no body would dare to be aggressive on her(except japan)

Only difference between us is that they're still here :lol: :lol:
 
I got so touched following this thread..

keep it nice , people :)
 
KingKHAN said:
Only difference between us is that they're still here :lol: :lol:
and that difference is because of Mao :) (u could debate on it, but u cant say its not because of Mao)
for example, u know, hongkong, macau, now back as part of china
 
KingKHAN said:
I'm an Aboriginal of Canada, we lost our land to Europian Settlers a couple hundred years ago...
I'm a breed. And I never lost the land, I know where it is. They can say they own it, they say they own the sky too. Me and the moose don't care what they say.

My ancestors, the Aboriginal peoples whom founded North America some 40,000 years ago during the ice age were the first ones here
We didn't found North America. The Great Mystery did. I was put here though.

We were considered to be Heathens to the Europian Settles (Christians).
Nope. We aren't heathens, we are pagans. Heathens are something totally different. Don't take it personally, we may be pagans, but the Europeans were Barbarians. Everybody's been called something.

This may have been along time ago, but isn't China and Germany better now? Haven't your countries healed from the persecutions of your past?
Don't even go there. Just because we have it hard, doesn't mean other people have it easy. No comparison, you should be ashamed. Human suffering isn't our trademark, it's global. If anything, I'd expect you to be more understanding of people who have had a difficult time.

I was quite irritated when they removed the Iroquois from Civ4.
Me too, but I'm not Iroquois, so it wasn't a deal breaker. Look for a mod, or expansion pack? Until then, play the Inca.

So don't tell me you have it hard, try growing up on a poverty struck reserve and being persecuted by police whom thrive pride and joy to patrol around the reserves and jump on any oppurtunity to arrest an Aboriginal.
Cut it out. Sure, the rez bites, but I've seen worse. I've seen ethnic cleansing up close, so don't you start comparing our pain to other peoples. Again, it sucks to be us sometimes, but the world far from Turtle Island is one big, mean, ugly nasty mess sometimes. The bad guys seem to always win, and suffering is the norm. If you think you know pain, you don't. I've got scars, and I still consider myself lucky. Compared to some, I am living in a dream world. The rez isn't hell, I've been there, it is a whole different monster.

PS: Hi China! How you doin'? :cool:
 
Oh, I know pain, I've been wrongfully arrested, witnessed friends being abused by cops the whole ordeal. I've listened to stories of Tribes whom receive sewage dump from cities, through the rivers. It's dispicable and disrespectful. And factually, natives did found North America, first ones here, long before Europians were even a thought.

EDIT: If there is an expansion, I hope they add the Sioux (Sitting Bull's Icon) is a good hint towards maybe them doing that (maybe why they removed the Iroquois as well).
 
Don't even go there. Just because we have it hard, doesn't mean other people have it easy. No comparison, you should be ashamed. Human suffering isn't our trademark, it's global. If anything, I'd expect you to be more understanding of people who have had a difficult time.

Atleast they still own their land.
 
Tragic said:
Net Mapel, your post is very offensive to me personally. To call mainland Chinese brainwashed is offensive. It is not hard for intelligent and educated people who know Chinese history to make their own judgments. Nobody in China is denying that Mao’s policies were a disaster. The current government completely acknowledges that the Great Leap and Cultural revolution were horrible. Why do people still love Mao? Because he gave china a country. You may not appreciate this but mainland Chinese do.

As to Hong kong and Taiwan, they were always better off than the rest of china. After the civil war, the KMT fled to Taiwan and took with the much of what was left of the wealth of china. Hong Kong and Taiwan were spared from the massive natural disasters, the wars, the rebellions that plagued the mainland and cost hundreds of millions of lives. Hong Kong and Taiwan, aside from Japanese occupation was spared the worst of what the mainland experienced. And neither Hong Kong or Taiwan suffered from the severe international prejudice and the debilitating trade sanctions imposed on the mainland by the western powers. As the mainland modernizes, it will catch up. I just hope one day that everyone will be able to put aside their prejudices and work together and prosper.
I understand that Mao was able to unite China, but KMT also did (or very close to) that as well before the Japanese invaded China. To me, I honestly believe China would be in a far better state now had Mao never suceeded. But I guess that is up to many debates. As for Taiwan and Hong Kong, they each had their own problem as well but they still eventually came on top. You don't think the Hong Kong people didn't rebel and so on when the English took over ? You don't think there were massacres in Taiwan when Japan occupied it ? Or when KMT escaped to Taiwan ? All I am saying is that the people who led the improvements in Taiwan and Hong Kong knew about their stuff much better, and therefore these two places now are far more advance than China.

Also, I called China brainwashing for obvious reason. I do not see Taiwanese protraying their presidents God-like figure, nor are the Hong Kong people. In fact,you constantly hear the people questioning their governments' actions and so on, which lead to better improvements. Do you need examples ?

mao.jpg

mao1.jpg
The Great Mao
mao-poster.jpg
Labours must lead everything

I can see nothing but government proproganda in those pictures... instead of spending thousands of dollars printing and distributing posters like this, why not spend those money on something more useful like building factories and so on ?
 
QiZhe said:
Many of you seem to be against Qing Long and the Manchu Dynasty. While technically he was Manchurian and not Chinese, it's like saying Alexander is not qualified to be the Greek leader because he's actually Macedonian. He is a famous figure in Chinese history, and being Manchurian isn't a reason to exclude him. They make Chinese dramas about Qian Long, people in China now don't seem to resent him much.

Not only that, Qian Long wasn't that great a leader at all. What the hell did he do to deserve to be placed among the rank of leaders like Ceasar or Alexander? Heck, even domestically, Qianlong was not considered to be one of the greates emperors.
 
温柔的杀你 said:
Mao is the first leader to resolve the problem of the peasants and it is a big step in chinese history

That is a "maoist" interpretation of the agricultural disaster of the 1960s.
 
there are no resources to do so. and it maybe propaganda if u look at it, but it helps maintains the stability of the country.
the democratics "propagate" more, when ever there is an election, u see posters all over the place, u see parties make public speeches about how great they are, and how good the country will be if they have the control. and yet, the money could be spent to fix problems and make people happier instead.

Mao was able to unite China, but KMT also did (or very close to)
and yes, the communist were nearly wiped out, but they beat nationalist in the end. as if KMT is uniting china, they made outer mongolia independant.(outer mongolia is part of china before civil war)

what made u think hongkong macau taiwan is better because they were/are not under Mao's control?

hongkong/macau is not WW2 and civil war flashpoints, no war have being fought on it.

taiwan. nationalist took almost everything valueble to taiwan, they have plenty of money to do everything. but they escape.

there is no proper margin to compare.

why there is no revolts when british took Hong Kong? is that what u have being told by western education?
 
panzooka said:
there are no resources to do so. and it maybe propaganda if u look at it, but it helps maintains the stability of the country.

what made u think hongkong macau taiwan is better because they were/are not under Mao's control?

hongkong/macau is not WW2 and civil war flashpoints, no war have being fought on it.

taiwan. nationalist took almost everything valueble to taiwan, they have plenty of money to do everything. but they escape.

there is no proper margin to compare.

why there is no revolts when british took Hong Kong? is that what u have being told by western education?
I'm saying there were probably revolts and rebellions when the British took over Hong Kong. I am also saying there were probably many deaths when the Japanese took over Taiwan, and when KMT fled to Taiwan.

I am ALSO saying while KMT had the resources, they still basically built Taiwan from the ground up. There were barely any solid constructions in Taiwan during that time because it was at war. Whatever the case is, KMT effectively took its available resources and made Taiwan a global power economically and technologically. The British, too, took whatever resources it had and transformed Hong Kong from a fishing village to a dominant economic giant house in Asia.
 
Yeah, I wasn't really too happy to use Mao other then his traits.

Why not commemorate Chinese heritage by putting the last Ming emperor before isolationist policies. Zhu Di
 
oh, sorry, i edited my post, please requote, i was in a rush

also, the KMT not only took most resources to taiwan, they also blow up and destroy majore structures, such as bridges(prevents communist to chase them).
shipyards, for obvious reason, and some factories
 
Actually the condition is exactly opposite. The China government will not allow the game be sold in mainland until Firaxis removes any modern Chinese leader in the game.

Varelse said:
I figured they included Mao in the game because there are a billion people in China and the producers of the game figured that would be the best way to get the communist leaders of China to allow the game to be sold in their country.
 
阿里巴巴 said:
Actually the condition is exactly opposite. The China government will not allow the game be sold in mainland until Firaxis removes any modern Chinese leader in the game.
I heard the Chinese government wouldn't allow Civ3 in because they thought Mao looked too ugly in the portrait. Therefore, the Chinese version of Civ3 had a different leader (another modern person, forgot his name).
 
NetMapel said:
I heard the Chinese government wouldn't allow Civ3 in because they thought Mao looked too ugly in the portrait. Therefore, the Chinese version of Civ3 had a different leader (another modern person, forgot his name).

It has nothing to do with how good he looks. It is illegal to use name or image of a political leader in a commercial activity.
 
Mao was just a modern day Qin under a (semi) communist flag. He is fact was quite similar to Qin.
 
Ooops! are you a Chinese? if you are, I am really shame for you.
Who told you this kind of meaning of 5 stars in the national flag?
Don't speak it out before you confirm it.

smphang said:
Officially, Chinese is composed of 5 main "tribes" of Han, Manchurian, Mongolian, Hui and Tibetan (thats why there are 5 stars in china flag) as well as other minor "tribes").
 
Nope. Actually the offical Chinese version of Civ3 replaced Mao with Tang Tai Zong. Even replaced the name of China! It is called Nine Tripod Kingdom!

NetMapel said:
I heard the Chinese government wouldn't allow Civ3 in because they thought Mao looked too ugly in the portrait. Therefore, the Chinese version of Civ3 had a different leader (another modern person, forgot his name).
 
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