Abstinence only works, how moronic

Abstinence is evil.

Why?

Self-control is generally something to be applauded, since it means you prevent excesses. Excess greed, excess anger, excess etc.

Abstinence, if one holds true to it, keeps plenty of children from being born into horrid conditions, and making matters worse is those children often can't be aborted, and so will instead either spend their lives in a poor household or an orphanage.

As a minor note for supreme abstinence advocates, banning abortion without having a social safety net is like amputating a limb and not controlling the bleeding.
 
Pleasure = good. Telling people not to pleasure themselves = bad.

I don't really care if people want to be abstinent for personal reasons, you take me way too seriously sometimes.

Self-control is generally something to be applauded, since it means you prevent excesses. Excess greed, excess anger, excess etc.
Excess isn't inherently bad. What about excess charity?

Abstinence, if one holds true to it, keeps plenty of children from being born into horrid conditions, and making matters worse is those children often can't be aborted, and so will instead either spend their lives in a poor household or an orphanage.
Use a freaking rubber. Or pull out. Or birth control pill. Or morning after pill. Or abortion.
 
Pleasure = good. Telling people not to pleasure themselves = bad.

I don't care about people pleasuring themselves; I can be quite hedonistic myself at times. :p

What I care about is people destroying the lives of the generations yet to come. Many people will abandon the child, aren't ready to raise it well, or will send it to rot in the orphanages.

Though if people want to spread STDs amongst themselves in a wholly consensual manner, by all means proceed. Pregnancy adds a third person to the equation.

Excess isn't inherently bad. What about excess charity?

As you probably know, excess in general usage - at least how I've seen it - has connotations of bad things, not good things. :p

Use a freaking rubber. Or pull out. Or birth control pill. Or morning after pill. Or abortion.

Condoms aren't full proof, and abortion is in a legal/moral debate at the time being. Never mind science will make it illegal eventually.

Not sure about the birth control/morning after pill's effectiveness.

Abstinence is the only foolproof way to avoid pregnancy for the simple reason that without sex, there can be no pregnancy barring artificial means.
 
I don't care about people pleasuring themselves; I can be quite hedonistic myself at times. :p

What I care about is people destroying the lives of the generations yet to come. Many people will abandon the child, aren't ready to raise it well, or will send it to rot in the orphanages.

Though if people want to spread STDs amongst themselves in a wholly consensual manner, by all means proceed. Pregnancy adds a third person to the equation.
Funny how birth rates have gone down in western countries as sex became more accepted, eh?

As you probably know, excess in general usage - at least how I've seen it - has connotations of bad things, not good things. :p
That doesn't mean it applies to everything. I don't think it applies to sex. Sue me.

Condoms aren't full proof,
They're good enough.

and abortion is in a legal/moral debate at the time being. Never mind science will make it illegal eventually.
Why?

Not sure about the birth control/morning after pill's effectiveness.
Very.

Abstinence is the only foolproof way to avoid pregnancy for the simple reason that without sex, there can be no pregnancy barring artificial means.
And not driving is the only foolproof way not to kill someone in a car accident.
 
Japan isn't Western too and it has the worst demographic problem and Russia isn't the West either.
 
For him, yeah.
For both of you. Birth rates have a lot more to do with one's financial situation and prospects than with one person's opinion of how "accepted" it is (in what? pop culture? the news media? everyday conversation? among whom? etc.).
 
I wasn't really paying attention to what he was saying because he's barely coherent.
 
Funny how birth rates have gone down in western countries as sex became more accepted, eh?

I'm sure there's a reason behind that besides how accepted it is.

Possibly how people care less and less about mass numbers of children since they're likely to live past childhood, and so make a point to have fewer kids who they can take care of very well?

They're good enough.

Sometimes it's good to look at the exceptions rather than the rule, and try to find ways to eliminate those exceptions. Sex is something to be approached delicately to avoid ruining a child.

Regardless of whether one considers abortion moral or not, anyway, there's something that irks me about "have sex as much as you want and just abort it." I don't know what, since I'm not really pro-life.


A moderate pro-choice stance, like the one established in Roe v. Wade, is that abortion should be illegal if the fetus can be supported outside the womb, albeit with assistance. Technology will inevitably continue to advance. Therefore, I can say that most likely, one day far in the future, we could sustain a fetus from a lump of cells right up to 9 months.

At that point, abortion would be made illegal should the legal opinion remain, and even beyond that, I think it will rub many wrong to kill something if we could easily preserve it to what would be birth.

And not driving is the only foolproof way not to kill someone in a car accident.

There will be no people to murder or murderers if we don't give birth to them. :p

Never mind that cars are economically valuable. Rampant sex isn't.
 
I'm sure there's a reason behind that besides how accepted it is.
Yeah I know, but more sex does not = more children like you seem to be implying.

Regardless of whether one considers abortion moral or not, anyway, there's something that irks me about "have sex as much as you want and just abort it." I don't know what, since I'm not really pro-life.
I honestly don't care about a bunch of cells inside a chick's stomach. Once we get to the third trimester or close to it then I'm really iffy though.

A moderate pro-choice stance, like the one established in Roe v. Wade, is that abortion should be illegal if the fetus can be supported outside the womb, albeit with assistance. Technology will inevitably continue to advance. Therefore, I can say that most likely, one day far in the future, we could sustain a fetus from a lump of cells right up to 9 months.
That's pretty cool but not really relevant to a discussion about today. Capitalism could be abolished by then and all these social problems along with it.

Never mind that cars are economically valuable. Rampant sex isn't.
Who cares about economically valuable? Rampant sex is good because it makes life(for some) more enjoyable and I see no reason to discourage it for those people.
 
Yeah I know, but more sex does not = more children like you seem to be implying.

Provided you take the right precautions, yes, they do not equal eachother. But there is always a chance.

This chance is eliminated by abstinence by definition.

Who cares about economically valuable? Rampant sex is good because it makes life(for some) more enjoyable and I see no reason to discourage it for those people.

This wouldn't be a problem except for the pregnancy issue.

I wish there was a foolproof way besides abstinence to alleviate the problem, but I'm not aware of any.
 
Self-control is generally something to be applauded, since it means you prevent excesses. Excess greed, excess anger, excess etc.

Why on earth are you of all people promoting self-control as a virtue? :confused:
 
Why on earth are you of all people promoting self-control as a virtue? :confused:

For one, if I lack self-control, that doesn't mean I can't admit that flaw and encourage others not to repeat it. :p

Second, what do you mean me of all people? :confused:
 
I seriously doubt that.

I do like how we are basically saying that if we have urges just satisfy those urges. Self control is something that people should learn that all temptations should not be listen to.

you know why some of freud's theories are so frecked up?

because he was living in a society in which "listening to" those "temptations" was heavily frowned upon.

just look at yourself, your over 30, never had sex and have some serious social issues.
this is because you always were taught to repress your urges no matter what.

do you really want a society of yous?
 
I really don't see having sex as a lack of self control. I see it as being an act of love between two consenting parties. I can't imagine advocating abstinence except with those who are too immature to do so.

I was really irritated on the first page, but finally you came along and said it. :)

Actually i would go one step further: Why has love to be in it? Can't people just copulate cause, well, they like it? Do they have to care for another? Would not doing so be immoral?
 
Just how moronic can a young woman be when she is running around spouting that abstinence only works, then she comes out with , well it did not work so well when I and my real bright boyfriend got down and dirty.

No wonder the rate of pregnancy is so high among those whose parents rant that their daughter would never have sex outside of marriage because they have taken a pledge to wait until the wedding night.

A high school drop out's normal vernacular ? canard ? why do I have some doubts.
(Accusing me of hypocrisy is by now, an old canard. What Mr. Olbermann lacks in originality he makes up for with insincere incredulity)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/03/bristol-palin-strikes-back-olbermann_n_791478.html

It can work for some people, but the vast majority just dont have the willpower to pull it off.
 
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