aCK-3 The Cat with the Hat

[IamJohn]

Well, here goes on the first report.

Turn 1
Got the open borders signed, sent a chariot in to check out Bismark's land.

Dodged a pair of barb archers bound and determined to disrupt another chariot's quiet, yet oh so romantic ride through the country side.

Turn 2
Finished a chop at Constantinople, started a mine.

Turn 3
Finished two chariots, started another two.
Got line of sight into Berlin- no Spears! I let the people of Constantinople throw a party in thanks to the mighty pRNG!

Ruthlessly kill a barb warrior who had the affrontry to exist, chariot now at 5 xp.

Turn 4
The pair of barb archers decide to launch themselves in the general direction of our cities, the chariots we have should be sufficient to defend.
At the moment at least there's only two archers in each of Bismark's two other cities, Hamburg and a newly revealed Munich.

Turn 5
Barbs hit our chariot, we kill one, then they barely manage to kill the chariot, I easily kill the remaining barb archer.

Turn 6
We find Shaka's borders, nothing else of note. I sign NAP since now seems to be the time to explore.

Turn 7
Bismark discovers ironworking, and beacuse he's in the mood for seafood, starts fishing, forgetting in the confusion that he doesn't actually have any.

Turn 8
Nothing...

Turn 9
We build another chariot, Bismark builds great wall- Unfortunately, we're the type of barbarians undetered by big honking walls.

Turn 10
Living la vida loca...

Turn 11
And the beat goes on...

Turn 12
And on...

Turn 13
A Quest! We get rewards (TBA) that (will) fall right into our lap if all goes well.

Turn 14
Zip...

Turn 15
Zada...

Turn 16
In an alternate meeting place for the UN until someone can get around to building a REAL meeting place (still waiting for construction bids to come back) we meet:
Tokogawa! The world quivers (in joy!)

Huayna Capac! The World quivers in fear of their overwhelming orangeocity (and of the aparent 70s reviveal in color schemes...)

Turn 17
Two more chariots roll off the assembly line, we've exhausted all the forests in Thessalonica.

Turn 18
Zilch...

Turn 19
Toybee has it out for us aparently....

Turn 20
pRNG decides the zulu have sacrificed enough sheep and cows on the alter of predictability, but sadly the Incans have been sadly less careful with their tithing...

We get open borders with the incans, they seem to be doing less then we are, since they have a grand total of two cities, and less defence then average for an AI.

Turn 21
And now we know why- looks like someone had some barb trouble...

Turn 22
Nothing...

Turn 23
We have a total of 9 chariots ready to go, more soon. Germany has one spear (and it's not in the capital city atm, but does have another settler ready to roll.)

Turn 24
We get a forest at Thessalonica- Greenpeace groans in horror to the ironic amusement of the rest of the world...

Turn 25
Nothing major.


-Armed Forces Report: We have a stack of nine chariots, with another off barb killing exploring, and two more off making sure Bismark doesn't decide to go nuts building military.

-Bismark Armed Forces Report: He has has two archers in his two secondary cities, and an axeman and an archer at his captial. He has a settler and spear under the main chariot scouting his lands.

Zulu land- he has about the same military composition as Bismark.

-Our land:

-Germany:

 

[pholtz]

Looks like a good turn, our fight against ol' Battleship is about to start. I'll download the save and take a good look at it, but will wait 2 or 3 days at least for Silver.

 

[The Simple Mind]

I'm not at my CIV computer at the moment but a few of thoughts:

• Looks like we've nearly got our army, 9 chariots plus possibly another 4 from whipping + production
• Ol' Battleship has 4 cities, only Hamburg appears to be on a hill. Looking at the 2nd last screenie, city no 4 seems to be 3E of Thessa's cows.
• IamJohn, you never said what tech we're researching. Assuming it is still ABCs then we can't be far from completing it. Gives us the option to accept tech for peace. We should try and get IW though I'm not sure if we would have to take 3 out of 4 cities for Ol' Battleship to offer that.
• I still think Berlin is the only city we want to keep. Everything else is just junk.

Hopefully S.ilver's computer will be back up soon and he can let us what wonderful plays we've made . Otherwise, Pholtz, it's up to you to take us to war.

As I said before, I'm away from CIV and the internet from Fri 25th to Mon 28th. I'll try and have a look at the save tonight and pass on any other thoughts/comments.

TSM

 

[IamJohn]

• Looks like we've nearly got our army, 9 chariots plus possibly another 4 from whipping + production

• We have a total of 11 who are able to attack with another that's off contacting other civs (he's currently by the incas). 9 are in the stack, and 2 that are patrolling in Germany.

  [*]IamJohn, you never said what tech we're researching. Assuming it is still ABCs then we can't be far from completing it. Gives us the option to accept tech for peace. We should try and get IW though I'm not sure if we would have to take 3 out of 4 cities for Ol' Battleship to offer that.

  Yeah, we're researching alphabet still. We're having money issues, so the most we could really do was 70%, I was trying to see if binary research helped (if it did it wasn't huge, but I don't think it hurt).

  [*]I still think Berlin is the only city we want to keep. Everything else is just junk.

  Totally agree.

 

[sturick]

While I am a poor substitute for Silver I will try and impart a few pearls of wisdom in his absense.

First of all, based off of Boffo and aCK of the past, I don't think that rushes are Silver and Liqs favorite early game technique. Usually, the risk/reward is not quite worth it. It did work in Boffo-6 so hopefully it works here too! But, on the other hand, the RNG has really painted you into a corner. Your land sucks and even two or three iron deposits isn't going to change that. You don't really have good enough land to try and snag enough cities to put together enough to wage a mace/cat war later on. My point is...you are past the point of no return. Either this chariot rush works and you proceed or it doesn't and you reroll.

The hardest part that I see in terms of this particular rush is the pillaging of the copper.
It will take you three turns to pillage the copper after a DOW. That is alot of time for Bismarck (I must admit I don't get the ol Battleship reference) to prepare his defenses and to whip out units (preferably axemen!)

But you do have 11 chariots ready to go and that might just be enough.

Thinking optimistically and long term I think if you can take Berlin (and keep of course) then you should move towards taking Munich. Hamburg on a hill is right out! I might even keep it...yes I know its in a lousy location but it does have two benefits that I see. One, it blocks the west off for Bismarck. You could have him confined to the east coast very nicely. Two, it provides silver which gives you much needed happiness.

Then, if all goes well, you hurry a settler over to the west. You have an awesome choke point with that mountain chain. I see two options to block. You could plant a city right on the desert tile and block the pass off immediately...not a great city site but you have the block in place right away. You could also plant a city on the tundra tile in the middle of the strip of land. Its not really a better or worse city but it would keep better borders with Shaka. Once your borders pop he can't pass and you could build a fort on the desert tile for protection.

But I may be getting too far ahead of myself...you need to take Berlin first.
For what its worth, I will keep an eye on things here until Silver fixes his puter problems.

Good luck team!

 

[pholtz]

First as far as the ol'Battleship name, well, we're playing loose with history as that ship named after Bismark was built after he died. But here's hoping this Bismark will suffer the same fate as the ship.

Here is a picture of the battlefield.

The green X down at the bottom shows traces of culture than indicate where ol'Battleship has placed a fourth city. The blue dot shows where he has a Spearman . Luckily it is escorting a settler. We could attack this turn, but probably best to wait one turn and let the spearman move. While it will take three turns to pillage the copper, it will take only two turns to attack Berlin as indicated by the red lines. Even starting the current location, the stack can move to the red circle the first turn, and then attack Berlin the second. One or both of the other two chariots should be moving to pillage the copper, in cast Berlin doesn't fall on the attack. But hopefully we wont' have to pillage, just build a road to Berlin and have our own source of copper. I think the attack should go down after just one waiting turn to let the Spear move away.

As far as promotions, if we are facing only axe and archers, then flanking for two or three units, to increase their chance of survival, Combat I for the others. If he builds a spearman, then Combat I for all, to hopefully increase the chance that the spear would get damaged. There is too great a chance for a unit to attack the spear and do no damage .

Edit: actually on second thought, probably just Combat I for all to increase the damage they would do. We HAVE to take Berlin on the second turn of war. Even if we can't go beyond that, just holding onto Berlin while we replace our loses will make the difference, as we'll have copper and ol'Battleship won't. Although we need to check around the fourth city in case he found iron.

 

[IamJohn]

Looks like a plan. From what I've heard flanking by its self doesn't really do all that much, it's a pretty small increase in the chance for survival, I agree that combat I all throughout is the way to go.

Keep in mind however that we have 1 chariot coming in turns, and another the turn after in constantinople, but that is 3/4 more turns where he can build more spears, or move that one to a place that is worse for our plans.

 

[pholtz]

Where are you Silver? If no one objects I'll try to conduct the war tomorrow sometime, if Silver doesn't show up.

 

[Whosit]

Where are you Silver? If no one objects I'll try to conduct the war tomorrow sometime, if Silver doesn't show up.

I know that S.ilver's computer is fried, so it's possible that he does not have ready access to the forums. Having gone through the grinder, sturick and I will offer some suggestions, but as sturick pointed out, we're not S.ilver.

I think that sturick gave you guys a pretty good rundown of your situation. Since you've already invested so much into this rush, you'll have to make it happen. I'll just add some tactical advice.

I see that you've been discussing promotions, mainly Flanking vs. Combat promotions. Based on my experience with such promotions and from what I have read, and considering the composition of your forces, I would suggest that you make at least 3-4 Flanking II Chariots (if I recall, you said that your cities have both Barracks and Stables, so your Chariots should roll off the line with 2 promotions). Flanking II adds a 30% withdrawl chance (total) on top of a Chariot's natural 10%, so if my math is right they will have a 40% chance of withdrawing rather than dying. Additionally, Flanking II provides immunity against 1st Strikes, and all Archers have at least 1 natural first strike, more if they are promoted Drill.

The exact withdrawl chance may vary depending on the odds, but basically, it kicks in if your unit would otherwise lose. So, what you're trying to get happen is this: The Flanking Chariot goes in, does a few hits, and gets out. It's generally better to end up with a wounded unit than a dead unit. After you've softened up the defenders, send in the Combat promoted units. Flanking II won't guarantee your units survival, but it will increase the odds quite a bit. And, again, First Strike immunity.

Based on your attack plan, you really want to get Berlin on turn 2. In the event that you're down to your last Chariot (or, at least, the last Chariot with move) you may want to consider burning the town, because it's no good if you can't hold it. And that's the point I was meaning to get to, in my circuitous manner: Don't over-extend yourselves. Chances are that you'll use up all your gas getting Berlin. Make sure you can hold it and sue for peace (or even a cease-fire) as soon as possible. Also, make sure you cut that copper. When you take Berlin, you'll have no influence over the surrounding squares until the city comes out of revolt (and don't even assume that you'll gain control of the surrounding squares afterwords) so cut the copper mine and road ASAP.

Also, before you declare, consider your Chariots that are inside Germany's territory now. They will be expelled once war is declared, and they may not necessarily land where you want them. So just keep that in mind.

And, yeah, wait at least 1 turn for that spear to move away from Berlin. Hopefully more than a turn's move away. And pray that they don't spawn another.

Good luck, and may the Force be with you.

 

[pholtz]

Good news!

Berlin is ours, ol'Battleship is down to one city. We have copper! I'll be posting the turn report here in an hour or two.

 

[pholtz]

1325 BC (1): I took a look at the situation and here is what I found.

Both cities haven't been whipped for a while, but both will finish chariots before they grow unhappy, so I'll leave things alone. I notice both Zulu and Germany have Archers in our territory. The German may cause trouble once war is declared.

The Inca's are the only one with religion. They seem to be worshiping a fat man that is always sitting. I've see rumors of two other religions, but have no idea what people worship the strange gods.

Zulu territory doesn't have horses or copper. We'll need to secure our second site of horses quickly to prevent Shaka from taking that spot.

Our treasury isn't too good. Down to 7 and all of that will go in one turn. We need a bit of gold in reserve to handle any possible events. Have to reduce research to 50 to
get any income, which moves Alphabet WAYYYY into the future. Going to reduce research to zero for a turn or two. Wont' make that much difference.

I notice that even with our military buildup, ol'Battleship's army is still bigger than ours. I think I have to have a very limited goal of taking Berlin and the copper mine.
I'll sue for peace after that if he'll accept it. Give us time to start expanding a bit and build some Axemen.

Looking at the relations, Berlin has only discovered the Zulu, he doesn't know about Inca or Japan. Berlin isn't friendly with Zulu, so we won't suffer any relations problem when we declare war.

I see that you've been discussing promotions, mainly Flanking vs. Combat promotions. Based on my experience with such promotions and from what I have read, and considering the composition of your forces, I would suggest that you make at least 3-4 Flanking II Chariots (if I recall, you said that your cities have both Barracks and Stables, so your Chariots should roll off the line with 2 promotions). Flanking II adds a 30% withdrawl chance (total) on top of a Chariot's natural 10%, so if my math is right they will have a 40% chance of withdrawing rather than dying. Additionally, Flanking II provides immunity against 1st Strikes, and all Archers have at least 1 natural first strike, more if they are promoted Drill.

I think you got the wrong idea when we were discussing a quest to build stables. We do not have Horseback Riding yet and it will be a while until we do.

I changed the espionage a bit. Concentrating on Shaka and ol'Battleship. I think we'll have to take Shaka out next, might as well get what info we can on him.

I took a look at the power chart, and even with our build up, we are below both Germany and Zululand.

WHACK!

1300 (2): Japan converts to worshiping the fat man. The spear moved down towards Munich. Berlin doesn't have any more units. I think now is the time to strike.

Chagrin starts building the road towards Berlin.

Japan is sighted.

I guess our chariot will explore the far reaches while Dirk will try to fill in the holes. Unfortunately as Dirk tries to do that he immediately moves next to a Barbarian Archer.

War is declared. One chariot kicked from German territory spots Cologne.

The stack of nine moves to the attack. Even Lionus moves to help as a new chariot will appear next turn. WHACK!

1275 BC (3): Dirk dies . He will mourned! Ok, enough of that!

No additional units are built by Berlin ! The first chariot moves in for the attack and has only a 2.5 % chance, AND WINS!

What luck! The chariot gets the name Berlinus, so he can always remember this glorious day!

The second chariot has a 63% chance and loses. Third chariot has 95% chance and loses. OK OK, the luck is balancing out already

The fourth chariot takes Berlin.

Apparently Germany's other cities have very little culture. There will be no need to pillage the copper as Berlin no longer controls it!

Our attacking as soon as possible pays off!

Back in the picture of the first chariot win, you may have noticed that Germany mounted an "attack" from Cologne. They moved one Axe, which the chariot on the hill took care of easily.

I ended the turn with 3 chariots in Berlin, 2 just south including Berlinus. Berlinus was alone and injured, so just in case Germany sends someone along the roads to finish him off, I left an uninjured chariot with him to take any hit.

Four chariots are on the hill, ready to pounce on Cologne. I left Thessalonica temporarily undefended as the German archer in the area seems to be wandering about aimlessly and not threatening anything. WHACK!

1250 BC (4): This turn I attacked Cologne. I'm glad I had all four chariots available as all were needed and two were lost. Cologne is razed to the ground. With all the cash from Berlin and Cologne, our research gets started again. The chariots in Berlin now use the roads to explore but return back to the city to rest. No sign of the spearman. Right now, with the loss of a second city, I hope ol'Battleship will accept peace. I start a granary in both cities our core cities.

1225 BC (5): ol'Battleship is still having a hissyfit and won't talk. I think it's best to wait him out. I see no attacks coming. I would like to build an axeman to go along with our
chariots before any more attacks.

Constantinople will go unhappy next turn and whipping the Granary will burn only one population which won't be enough. So I start a Settler. We need to get our city going over by the second set of horses anyway.

1200 BC (6): I take down a German scout and get a little xp. Bismark still won't talk. I whip out the settler for 2 population which takes care of Constatinople's happiness problem for a bit.

1175 BC (6): Nothing happening, most of the chariots are still holed up in Berlin which will come out of revolt next turn. The Settler starts his trip watched over by a chariot or two.

1150 BC (7): I would like to say I planned this, but I'd be lying . I had forgotten about our quest. When Berlin comes out of revolt and our culture expands over the copper mine we get four axemen! They appear on the copper mine, just as ol'Battleship moves his Spearman escorting a settler next to it. The opportunity is too good, peace can wait a while.

The first axeman takes down the spearman and captures a worker (settler), and continues down to Munich. I move two axes and a Chariot next to Hamburg to keep a good eye on them while I move the rest down to Munich. One Axe and Lionus remain behind to guard Berlin. I'll have six units to take down Munich which only has two archers, then Hamburg will be next.

Hamlicar Barca is born, I'll create our medic.

Chagrin finishes the road to Berlin, and it is hooked up to our network. I don't plan to build any more military as with the 4 axemen I think we have enough.

1125 BC (8): Bad luck in the attack on Munich. Bismark had whipped out another archer, and then I lost 4 chariots in my attacks. I did manage to destroy two of his units but had to leave one injured archer alive. They also get a General in Hamburg.

Berlin is very unhappy, so I whip half the population tocreate a great monument to the success of our armed forces during the battle of Berlin.

1100 BC (9): Somehow all that whipping made the people of Berlin much happier. YOU WILL BE HAPPY!

Munich whips out another archer so I'm forced to move all the forces down there to finish it off the next turn. Bad mistake on my part. All the forces should have been in place to take the city in one turn.

The wandering German archer pops out of the fog to threaten the Settler moving to the west. I keep the settler moving but away from the archer and move a couple of chariots up.

1075 BC (10): The wandering archer retreats back into the fog. Apparently he has no stomach to fight for a lost cause.

The (second) attack on Munich goes much better. No new units are lost, but several will need time to heal. Munich is razed. Getting some experience for our axes which were very green when they started. One has City Raider II, one CR I. One of the Axes also attacked a scout who wandered too close.


1050 BC: It seems to be time to stop as a few decisions need to be made.

The situation. Hamilcar has moved to Berlin to help with the healing. Several Axes still need to make it there.

The settler has made it to the yellow dot. Constantinople and Berlin both have Granaries, Thessalonica is just about to complete one. Berlin is half way though building a Barracks, one worker is chopping a forest nearby. Constantinople has just started on a Library. The exploration has discovered that Japan cuts us off to the south, and we can't get open borders (no surprise). He now needs to head back and explore some of the bypassed areas.

- Germany is reduced now to Hamburg, who's culture is infringing on Berlin a bit. Should we build more units to take him down completely? Germany will accept a peace now. He has moved an archer near Berlin who is no threat. I was waiting for him to move out of the forest before I took him out.
- The settler has made it to the yellow dot. Is that where we want him?
- for so long we've been worried about Germany. What's the overall plan now?

I have some ideas I'll post soon. Here is the save file.

View attachment aCK-3 BC-1050.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[IamJohn]

Very nice job on the war!

I am kinda concerned that we're going to have economy problems, but once we get the cities fully online I think we'll be doing okay.

As for peace, I'd say take it. At the moment the Germans have a city that'll take quite a lot to dislodge, so anything we could build that would be able to take down the city would take longer then 10 turns anyway, so we might as well get peace and then finish Germany off once we have the proper forces.

Again, very nice job on the war front, we accomplished far more then we thought we could.

 

[pholtz]

First off, I think we need to go a bit faster with the turns if possible. I've been one of the biggest delayers as I keep hoping Silver will get back, and it is his game. But as the days go by and we still don't hear from him, I think we need to continue as well as we can with the help from the lurkers. I'll start trying to keep up with the standard 24 hrs to say you have the save, and 48 hours to get the turn in.

Oh, I forgot to assign the next turns.

S.ilver < --- computer is down
pholtz <-- Just Played --
The Simple Mind >> Up Next <<
IamJohn <-- On Deck --

Now as to goals. Our next main goal needs to be Shaka, and we shouldn't be too long about it either. It would be nice if he stays horse free, I'm sure he has iron someplace. To go after Shaka we need to do some development first. Here is a dot map showing the yellow dot where the settler is now, and a proposed blue dot.

I think we need to settle both to block Shaka from our territory and to take possession of the horses. We may want to close borders with him. After these are settled we may want the green dot of earlier dot maps. Yellow + Blue dots would be 5 cities, not sure if we can go six until we reduce expenditures a bit with courthouses/currency. We might want to just move a settler to the blue dot and actually settle only if necessary. We'll need to move a unit or two west to keep a better eye on Shaka.

As far as Germany goes, I think we should pursue peace. He is not a threat any more, and the loses we would take destroying Hamburg may not be worth it now. I think we should focus more on development/expansion of our cities. One idea might be NOT to make peace now, but just keep an eye on him. See if we can grab a worker. We learn our ABC's in 8 turns, THEN we can make peace and get a tech in exchange. The only disadvantage to this is Berlin will be slightly more unhappy, and we need to keep guard on any workers. Once we are almost ready to go after Shaka, we finish Germany off first, using him to get some experience.

 

[IamJohn]

I'm concerned about our expansion, at least when I played we were having significant problems with our tech rate, and as pholtz said in his turnset, we're only in the black when we're at 50% science. If we decide to go build another army to attack the zulu we're only going to go farther into the red.

As for the remaining german city I think it would be a good thing to try to take the city. If we could build HAs once we can trade for the tech it would make taking it a lot easier.

 

[The Simple Mind]

Just got back and had a look at the save. Fantastic news on the crippling of Germany . As IamJohn said, we got what we wanted out of the rush and now we have to fix our economy.

I’m for staying at war with ol’ battleship until we have ABCs. If we make peace now we can’t get anything from him. At the moment he can only attack us with archers or great general promoted workers, see spoiler

Spoiler :

I was faced this in a solo game.

Definitely an Attacko type unit!

and we have plenty axemen and chariots to deal with these. As ABCs is only 8 turns being at war wont be a big problem.

When we get ABCs and decide to make peace, what techs will we accept? Obviously, if we’re offered IW we’ll take it. Due to WFYABTA, are there any techs we shouldn’t accept? At the moment ol’ battleship has these techs on us:

- Hunting
- Archery
- Masonry
- Iron Working

Hunting’s only benefit to us is it allows us to tech archery for cheap unit. Handy when we are in Hereditary Rule. I don’t think he can offer us archery as we don’t know hunting. Is this correct? I don’t think we need masonry at present as we wont have any quarry resources in our bfcs and are unlikely to build any wonders for the foreseeable future. IW we definitely want.

Other possible techs are fishing, med and poly. Fishing doesn’t benefit us at present as we don’t have any seafood. And as far as we know there are none in the world! If he has med or poly I think we should take it. Either of these gets us a step closer to Monarchy for Hereditary Rule (to increase the happy caps).

Looking at our cities, thoughts and questions for going forward from here:

Constantinople
Library and growth due in 13 turns, whip anger gone in 10 turns. Do we need a library here? I know it is the capital and a library will give us 3 additional beakers but it is the best production / military pump city we have and if we run scientists it will take forever to grow.
If we continue with the library, is better to slow build or 2 pop whip it then build military?

Thessalonica
Completes granary next turn, at happy cap and growing in 10 turns. I think the next build should be a worker, 2 pop whip then build axe then research.

Berlin
Barracks due in 6 turns, growth & whip anger clears due in 11 turns and chop due in 3 turns. I’d change to settler and swap forest tile to riverside corn. Including the chop, we should get the settler in 7 turns. Then build library and run scientist.

Yellow Dot
Settle & work corn to grow and build library to pop borders & build research. Can also pump out military. Get Chagrin over there to the corn asap. When the other 2 workers have finished their tasks, get them to build “Road To Yellow Dot” (Can’t see that being a massive hit single/album).

Blue Dot
Agree with Pholtz’s site selection to have horses & cows in bfc. Though it doesn’t have much else going for it, it will serve the task of blocking Shaka. Also, it wont have border tensions with Shaka for a long time.

Regarding city builds: Thessa & Berlin have monuments. I very rarely build these other than going for the Henge or cultural victories. Normally I’d whip / build libraries for culture plus the extra beakers. I’m curious as to why we built these instead of libraries and do you normally build them? I ask as I’m keen to find out why you think monuments are better but also when I settle yellow & blue dots I would normally select libraries to expand the culture. Do you agree?

We seem to have the possibility of a Buddhist lovefest. I think we choose whatever religion keeps Shaka sweet. At the moment I’m not worried about Huanya & Toku as they need to go through Shaka to get to us. But if Shaka get Buddhism and we don’t, do we become no 1 bad guy?

Regarding research: If we can get IW from ol’ battleship (or by trading ABCs), I’d favour teching currency as it allows us to build wealth and it’s on the way to code of laws. The alternative is aesthetics for literature and trade bait instead of ABCs.

How do you guys feel about trading ABCs? I like to monopolise it for as long as possible but it might be the only way we can get IW other than teching,

Pholtz, I think we have all been wanting / needing S.ilver to push us on. Take this as a got it on Monday night, playing Tuesday after feedback and reporting Wednesday night / Thursday morning.

TSM

 

[pholtz]

Hunting’s only benefit to us is it allows us to tech archery for cheap unit. Handy when we are in Hereditary Rule. I don’t think he can offer us archery as we don’t know hunting. Is this correct? I don’t think we need masonry at present as we wont have any quarry resources in our bfcs and are unlikely to build any wonders for the foreseeable future. IW we definitely want.

I believe you are correct. We need the prereq's to get a tech so no archery until we have hunting. Masonry isn't important right now, but it is a prereq for Monotheism which is a prereq for Theology. Someone else does have Monotheism as Judaism has been founded. So we might want Masonry just as a prereq.

Fishing doesn’t benefit us at present as we don’t have any seafood.

Actually I think we need fishing, as we need sailing to link us in trade routes to the other countries and improve our economy.

As far as builds in the cities, I'm horrible at it. I tend to build everything, and with all the poor sites for cities we have I haven't figured out any specializations. Any list of cities, what they will turn into, so what we need to build in each would help much. I was building a barracks in Berlin as I was at war, so that's what I thought about. I agree it might not be the best if it's not going to be a builder of units.

Blue dot should probably be just cottages on the plains and/or working sea tiles (need fishing ). It should more than pay for itself I think. Not the best commerce city but one that at least contributes?

As far as monuments, I think Thessa has one as libraries weren't an option when it was built and we needed to pop the border. I probably goofed in Berlin as I was thinking we needed culture quickly since we don't have a religion yet. I thought monument and it was a handy one to quickly get rid of Berlin's unhappiness. Maybe with Hamburg's culture it won't be a too bad a choice as it will help keep the border where it belongs.

We seem to have the possibility of a Buddhist lovefest. I think we choose whatever religion keeps Shaka sweet. At the moment I’m not worried about Huanya & Toku as they need to go through Shaka to get to us. But if Shaka get Buddhism and we don’t, do we become no 1 bad guy?

If we have no religion, I don't think we'll be a bad guy, but then not best friends either. But adopting a religion other than Buddhism will need some prep I think. We would need to spread the new religion and get one of the other civ's to change. With my experience with Japan, I can't believe that Toku will stay at peace, even if he does share religion. I think if Toku declares war on anyone, we should consider joining in just to get the relationship benefit with Toku. I would much rather see Japan last a while, than the Inca's, who can be a much tougher opponent.

As far as trading away ABC's for ironworking, not right at the moment. In fact I think ironworking isn't as important as techs to help our economy. Whatever can get us to Code of Laws/Currency/Sailing is most important I think. We could probably fight Shaka with Axe/Horse/Cat's if we do it soon enough and our economy is in shape. You should probably change our spy priorities to Shaka and the Inca's as Germany won't produce much in the way of espionage points.

Can we see what kind of game we are going to have? Our land is too poor right now to think of a Culture win. With the gold mines of Zululand, I think we could have a possibility of Space or continuing warfare for Domination. Or, if we are going to have a Buddhism peace fest.. Diplomacy? With Shaka/Toku/HC? nah .

 

[The Simple Mind]

Re library in capital: I&#8217;ve changed my mind about this. As we are not likely to rush Shaka or finish off Bismark anytime soon and our military strength is ok compared to Shaka, I think we should continue with the library. We will need 6 eventually (from 5 cities?) to get the universities for Oxford and the extra beakers now should help.

I agree with no trading of ABCs.

Re victory: conquest / domination look to be the favourites at the moment though diplomacy would be interesting.

 

[The Simple Mind]

I'm midway through my turns and we've completed ABCs, made peace with ol' Battleship and everything is ok. A couple of thoughts / questions:

• 
  If the opportunity arises to steal a couple of workers from Germany, do I take it? At present he has 3 workers but I'm particularly concerned that he might build a settler and settle another junk hill city. I think that if I see a settling party and our peace treaty has expired, I should make a grab for the settler. What do you think?

• 
  I have units out fog busting. Should I recall some of these so that barbs can found a city and we can use it for XP for our units?

I'm intending to finish off my turns and report tonight.

 

[IamJohn]

• If the opportunity arises to steal a couple of workers from Germany, do I take it? At present he has 3 workers but I'm particularly concerned that he might build a settler and settle another junk hill city. I think that if I see a settling party and our peace treaty has expired, I should make a grab for the settler. What do you think?

• IMHO feel free if you have an easy shot, but make sure that you arn't going to get a diplo penalty from other civs from declaring on Germany, and make sure you are going to be able to fairly easily defend if decides to attack.

• I have units out fog busting. Should I recall some of these so that barbs can found a city and we can use it for XP for our units?

• I'd say no, you won't reliably create a city, and it'd be better to live on the safe side for the chance for a couple xp points.

 

[pholtz]

* If the opportunity arises to steal a couple of workers from Germany, do I take it? At present he has 3 workers but I'm particularly concerned that he might build a settler and settle another junk hill city. I think that if I see a settling party and our peace treaty has expired, I should make a grab for the settler. What do you think?

I agree with John here. Just make sure he isn't best buds with Shaka.

I have units out fog busting. Should I recall some of these so that barbs can found a city and we can use it for XP for our units?

Here I disagree. If we have spare units and can control the Barbs without problems, I say they are good practice. If they do found a city, it might be one we'll keep, in which case we saved ourselves a settler, if we need to destroy it, we get some money anyway. Since you've gotten two differing opinions, you get to do what you want