AD 1640 North America

[Ghandi Khan]

I thought that I did exactly that the first time I tried this and it didn't work... maybe I have too many other mods loaded somewhere or something. I'm going to try a fresh install because now whatever I have done has screwed up the game. I tried playing the Earth 1000 AD scenario last night and the Chinese won a space race victory on turn 7

 

[woodelf]

I still don't have an interface after clearing Custom Assets. Other than Alt or Ctrl-I (whichever it is) any ideas?

 

[Ambreville]

I thought that I did exactly that the first time I tried this and it didn't work... maybe I have too many other mods loaded somewhere or something. I'm going to try a fresh install because now whatever I have done has screwed up the game. I tried playing the Earth 1000 AD scenario last night and the Chinese won a space race victory on turn 7

Do you use Windows VISTA?

 

[Ambreville]

I still don't have an interface after clearing Custom Assets. Other than Alt or Ctrl-I (whichever it is) any ideas?

I don't understand what you are referring to. Can you elaborate?

 

[woodelf]

I have absolutely nothing except the map and units/cities. When I click on the units nothing shows up on the screen, like stats, ect. If I think of it later I'll post a screenie.

 

[Ambreville]

I have absolutely nothing except the map and units/cities. When I click on the units nothing shows up on the screen, like stats, ect. If I think of it later I'll post a screenie.

Hmmm. I'm not seeing this on my computer. No idea what's causing the problem on yours.

ANYONE ELSE IS HAVING THIS PROBLEM??​

-------------------------------


EDIT

Dumb question: have you tried toggling off/on the interface. I thought I'd ask because I did this once accidentally and didn't know how to toggle the interface back on at the time. As I said, it may be a dumb question...

 

[woodelf]

I assumed it was Alt, Ctrl, or Shift- I to do so, but nothing happened. Hitting escape to enter the submenus lets me see the submenus, but clicking on them does nothing. Very strange.

 

[Ambreville]

I assumed it was Alt, Ctrl, or Shift- I to do so, but nothing happened. Hitting escape to enter the submenus lets me see the submenus, but clicking on them does nothing. Very strange.

ALT-I and CTRL-I. They both work on my machine, toggling the interface on/off without trouble. Sorry man. I wish I could help. Do other mods work normally?

 

[woodelf]

This is the only Warlords mod I play.

I'll figure it out eventually. Thanks.

 

[Ambreville]

This is the only Warlords mod I play.

I'm stunned! (Thanks for the interest.) Oh, but that's right -- you're a plain vanilla guy! I forgot.

You might want to try another Warlords mod to see if you have the same problem. You don't use Vista, don't you? That's been a big problem with some other Warlords mods.

Plan on trying out BTS when it comes out?

By the way, will there be any tools to help convert mods to the new release?

 

[Ghandi Khan]

Do you use Windows VISTA?

Yes I am using Vista. I finally got the mod to work fine, I think what I did wrong the first time was that I put one too many folders in the MOD directory. i.e. when I unzipped everything, it all was unzipped into a folder with the same name as the scenario, so I put that folder into the MOD folder when I should have put the folder inside that folder into the MOD folder. This made it so the link didn't work because the directories were not in the expected place which led to me trying other things to get it work which made my problems worse.

Anyway... cool scenario. Nicely done with the map. I started first as the Cherokee and was doing pretty well I thought until the Dutch whom I was at war with sent an attack party via sea south around my allied the English. Then they just walked over me. I was already strained from being at war with two of the tribes next to me, though my capital city was surprisingly the best city in the world at that point.
I started again as the English and had a much easier time. I declared war on the Dutch almost immediately and took over both of their cities without any problem with the help of the great general and light infantry that arrived in the galleons. I talked a few native tribes into being vassal states without even declaring war, to strengthen my defensive position, and then sent my army by ship all the way to Texas to lay claim to the stone and horse resources there while at the same time creating a buffer against Spanish expansion northward. After that I focused on building up my cities, made easier by the fact I could build most available wonders twice as fast with the stone, and when I had the manpower available I started picking up more vassals from the surrounding tribes through warfare. When the Iroquois asked to be my vassal (they were at war with Louis and his two native vassals) I agreed and so was at war with Louis. Not long after that I finally finished researching my first tech.. which allowed the construction of barracks, light infantry, and mounted units, and that made destroying Louis fairly easy. Now my only serious rival is Isabella, and I have her locked in place by me in the west and by two of my vassals the Cherokee and Ogonkee(?) in the east.

Anyway, cool scenario. I think you captured the feel of the period fairly well... where there are tons more natives than Europeans, but because they are so disorganized and not unified, they can be played off each other by the European powers and don't really stand a chance again their technologically superior foes. I like the fact that the ships move so fast... I think that's more realistic being able to navigate down the coast in a season rather than the 10 years of game time it would normally take. The fact that cannon cannot enter forest or jungle also changes the strategy, especially on such a heavily forested map, and increases the importance of your navy. Several times rather than going over land as I usually do I have opted to land an attack force by sea on the enemy's doorstep, both because the ships are so much more mobile and also because sometimes there is no clear path for my cannon to move through otherwise. This is closer to reality than regular Civ where often it's faster just to walk somewhere.

One note... is there some reason why I could not trade any technologies as the Cherokee, even after I spent a very long time researching the technology that said it would allow me to do so. It was because of this I fell somewhat behind in military technology and succumbed so easily to the Dutch (I had just a few turns earlier started building axemen and spearmen). Do the other tribes have to have this technology too in order to trade? Or is there just no technology trading allowed in this scenario?

 

[Ambreville]

Anyway... cool scenario. Nicely done with the map. I started first as the Cherokee and was doing pretty well I thought until the Dutch whom I was at war with sent an attack party via sea south around my allied the English. Then they just walked over me. I was already strained from being at war with two of the tribes next to me, though my capital city was surprisingly the best city in the world at that point.
I started again as the English and had a much easier time. I declared war on the Dutch almost immediately and took over both of their cities without any problem with the help of the great general and light infantry that arrived in the galleons. I talked a few native tribes into being vassal states without even declaring war, to strengthen my defensive position, and then sent my army by ship all the way to Texas to lay claim to the stone and horse resources there while at the same time creating a buffer against Spanish expansion northward. After that I focused on building up my cities, made easier by the fact I could build most available wonders twice as fast with the stone, and when I had the manpower available I started picking up more vassals from the surrounding tribes through warfare. When the Iroquois asked to be my vassal (they were at war with Louis and his two native vassals) I agreed and so was at war with Louis. Not long after that I finally finished researching my first tech.. which allowed the construction of barracks, light infantry, and mounted units, and that made destroying Louis fairly easy. Now my only serious rival is Isabella, and I have her locked in place by me in the west and by two of my vassals the Cherokee and Ogonkee(?) in the east.

Anyway, cool scenario. I think you captured the feel of the period fairly well... where there are tons more natives than Europeans, but because they are so disorganized and not unified, they can be played off each other by the European powers and don't really stand a chance again their technologically superior foes. I like the fact that the ships move so fast... I think that's more realistic being able to navigate down the coast in a season rather than the 10 years of game time it would normally take. The fact that cannon cannot enter forest or jungle also changes the strategy, especially on such a heavily forested map, and increases the importance of your navy. Several times rather than going over land as I usually do I have opted to land an attack force by sea on the enemy's doorstep, both because the ships are so much more mobile and also because sometimes there is no clear path for my cannon to move through otherwise. This is closer to reality than regular Civ where often it's faster just to walk somewhere.

One note... is there some reason why I could not trade any technologies as the Cherokee, even after I spent a very long time researching the technology that said it would allow me to do so. It was because of this I fell somewhat behind in military technology and succumbed so easily to the Dutch (I had just a few turns earlier started building axemen and spearmen). Do the other tribes have to have this technology too in order to trade? Or is there just no technology trading allowed in this scenario?

Glad to hear you found out how to install the folder.

This is quite a game you had running. When you played the English, how far into the game did you go (1800, 1900)?

I had disabled tech trading in the early stages of this mod's development because the Civs tended to go through the tech tree much too fast for the time period. In my first attempt, I had railroads in the 1700's! Until I could fix the game's calendar (which I just did), the best solution was to block trading and ratchet up the cost of many key techs. I may be able to fix the lack of trading since I finally fixed the turn sequence. The trick here is that I have two dissimilar tech trees, and they both need to fit within the 500 game turns of the scenario. This will need more testing on my part. More later...

As the indians, you have to tread very carefully in the early stages of the game. Eventually you'll be able to trade Supplies (that's not a tech, it's a resource bonus) that will enable you to build musket warriors. You'll need the War Drums tech for these units. Once you get there, you have a good chance of surviving and maybe winning too. Until then, you really don't want to be at war with any Euro. Otherwise, you'll be spending two to three good axeman units for every militia the Euro send your way... if you can catch them in the open. Ouch! And your friendly neighborhood will dogpile you at the first opportunity. It's much tougher to play the indians, but it can be done. I just completed a game with the Illinois (so far made it to the 1880's with the new update) and I am dominating the game so far. It wasn't easy! If you want to try Indians, start with the western tribes. You'll have a better chance there. Watch those barb tribes though...

Thanks for trying out the game and posting your feedback!

 

[Ghandi Khan]

I just wanted to play as Cherokee because I am part Cherokee myself. They have a decent starting location but since you come into contact with all four of the European powers pretty early on it is difficult to appease all of them. The English and Spanish were very happy with me and the English were at war with the Dutch so I think that's why they would not accept a peace treaty.

After looking at the map in world builder I must agree it looks as thought the Sioux or Illinois or some other western tribes would have a much better starting location. There they have access to horses, more room to expand, and less chance of getting caught up in the crossfire between the Euros. Though without the supply resource I imagine it would be really difficult, so you'd need at least one good ally.

In the game as the English that I played, I stopped playing after killing all of the European powers (around 1780 or so, I think). I wiped out the Spanish last and after that I had quadruple the score of any other civ and 1/3 of all the tribes were vassals of mine, so I didn't see much challenge in finishing the game. I had converted to one of the native religions after taking over the holy city and was well on my way to achieving a religious victory (was at 40%, I think you win at 51%), though I'm sure domination wouldn't have been too difficult, either. Only annoying thing about going that route is I would bribe my vassals into converting, only sometimes to have them switch back to whatever they were before usually 5 or 10 turns later.

 

[Ambreville]

(...) Though without the supply resource I imagine it would be really difficult, so you'd need at least one good ally.

Correct. Most Indian tribes have either a good Euro ally, or at the very least a likely one. What's tricky is if/when your AI-controlled Euro ally decides to build its Arms Dealer. If that's where you're getting your muskets from, it makes a lot of sense to throw in all your weight to defend that ally for the time being to make sure you don't lose that supply of muskets to an enemy Euro. On the other hand, for a player it's usually not too difficult to be the first Indian tribe building the Portuguese Mission.

In the game as the English that I played, I stopped playing after killing all of the European powers (around 1780 or so, I think). I wiped out the Spanish last and after that I had quadruple the score of any other civ and 1/3 of all the tribes were vassals of mine, so I didn't see much challenge in finishing the game. I had converted to one of the native religions after taking over the holy city and was well on my way to achieving a religious victory (was at 40%, I think you win at 51%), though I'm sure domination wouldn't have been too difficult, either. Only annoying thing about going that route is I would bribe my vassals into converting, only sometimes to have them switch back to whatever they were before usually 5 or 10 turns later.

Wow! That must have been pretty brutal. Did you have a chance to try out the new promotions from the Tactics tech? I haven't tested these yet...

 

[Ghandi Khan]

I had an opportunity to use the Gendarme promotion but it didn't seem that useful to me so I never used it. I was generating enough great artists that revolts weren't a big issue.

I started a new game as the Sioux... haven't died yet and doing better overall, I think. I focused more on building up my military right away (I sort of had to, with the barbarians right next door) and though I didn't get some of the early wonders like I usually do I think it paid off in the long run. My army is pretty strong and I'm plowing through the other native civs near me with relative ease. I've tried hard to avoid pissing anyone off by trading as little as possible. I think that helps. I have given tribute whenever the Euros asked me to (even converted faith for Louis- though I changed right back- and made war on the Huron for Liz. Only thing I've said no to was making war on another Euro) and in general ignored everything that the Native Civs asked me to do. I also only have open borders with 2 or 3 civilizations. Seems to have worked out.

 

[Ambreville]

Your comments did remind me to do something I had meant to do with this last release. Here are the diplo "alignments" of the various tribes relative to each other and especially the Euros. This is helps recognizing "true friends" vs. all the other "forked tongues" Also beware that "true friends" are known to turn on the leader of the pack later in the game!

Here's a list of the Best/Worst relationships between the Civs, based on the initial diplomatic settings and my experience of the game (taking into account actual game flow and religions).

[B]0	FRANCE[/B]		Best : Algonquins, Hurons, Choctaws
			Worst: Iroquois, Chickasaws, England, Netherlands 

[B]1	ENGLAND[/B]		Best: Cherokees, Chickasaws, Missouris
			Worst: Netherlands, Algonquins, Hurons

[B]2	SPAIN[/B]		Best: Quapaws, Sioux, Cherokees
			Worst: Caddos, Muskogees, Netherlands

[B]3	NETHERLANDS[/B]	Best: Shawnees, Iroquois, Caddos
			Worst: Quapaws, England, Abenakis

[B]4	ALGONQUIN[/B]	Best: France, Hurons, Abenakis
			Worst: Iroquois, England, Netherlands

[B]5	HURON[/B]		Best: Algonquins, France, Eries
			Worst: Iroquois, England, Shawnees 

[B]6	IROQUOIS[/B]	Best: England, Netherlands, Shawnees, Cherokees
			Worst: Hurons, Algonquins, France

[B]7	ABENAKI	[/B]	Best: France, Algonquins, Hurons
			Worst: Netherlands, England, Iroquois

[B]8	ERIES[/B]		Best: Hurons, France, Illinois
			Worst: Netherlands, Shawnees, Missouris

[B]9	SHAWNEES[/B]	Best: Netherlands, Chickasaws, Caddos
			Worst: Eries, Cherokees, Illinois

[B]10	CHEROKEES[/B]	Best: England, Chickasaws, Spain
			Worst: Muskogees, Shawnees 

[B]11	ILLINOIS[/B]	Best: Eries, Hurons, Sioux, France
			Worst: Shawnees, Netherlands, Chippewas

[B]12	CHIPPEWAS[/B]	Best: Quapaws, Missouris, France
			Worst: Sioux, Illinois, Chickasaws

[B]13	CHICKASAWS[/B]	Best: England, Cherokees, Shawnees
			Worst: Choctaws, France, Quapaws

[B]14	CHOCTAWS[/B]	Best: Muskogees, France, Caddos
			Worst: Chickasaws, Cherokees, England

[B]15	MUSKOGEES[/B]	Best: Choctaws, Netherlands
			Worst: Cherokees, Spain, Chickasaws

[B]16	CADDOS	[/B]	Best: Missouris, Netherlands, Chickasaws
			Worst: Quapaws, Spain, Choctaws 

[B]17	QUAPAWS[/B]		Best: Spain, Chippewas, Sioux
			Worst: Missouris, Chickasaws, England

[B]18	MISSOURIS[/B]	Best: Caddos, Chippewas, England
			Worst: Sioux, Quapaws, Spain

[B]19	SIOUX[/B]		Best: Spain, Illinois, Quapaws
			Worst: Missouris, Chippewas

See Excel file attached below for the actual game ratings. Cross ref columns and rows. The numbers listed show which Civ maintains good or bad modifiers with their neighbors. This should help you sort out your diplomacy with all these tribal critters! Don't leave your teepee with it!

Here's a sample:

[B]		FRANCE		ENGLAND		SPAIN
FRANCE		--		[COLOR="red"]-60[/COLOR]		-10		
ENGLAND		[COLOR="red"]-60[/COLOR]		--		-10
SPAIN		-10		-10		--
NETHERLANDS	[COLOR="red"]-25[/COLOR]		-10		[COLOR="Red"]-25[/COLOR]
ALGONQUIN	[COLOR="Green"]25[/COLOR]		[COLOR="red"]-25[/COLOR]		--	
HURON		[COLOR="green"]40[/COLOR]		[COLOR="red"]-40[/COLOR]		--
IROQUOIS	[COLOR="red"]-40[/COLOR]		[COLOR="Green"]40[/COLOR]		--		
ABENAKI		10		[COLOR="Red"]-25[/COLOR]		--		
ERIES		10		--		--		
SHAWNEES	-10		--		--		
CHEROKEES	[COLOR="red"]-40[/COLOR]		[COLOR="green"]40[/COLOR]		10
ILLINOIS	10		-10		-10
CHIPPEWAS	10		-10		--		
CHICKASAWS	[COLOR="red"]-40[/COLOR]		[COLOR="green"]40[/COLOR]		-10
CHOCTAWS	10		[COLOR="red"]-40[/COLOR]		-10
MUSKOGEES	--		[COLOR="red"]-25[/COLOR]		[COLOR="red"]-60[/COLOR]
CADDOS		--		--		[COLOR="red"]-25[/COLOR]
QUAPAWS		10		[COLOR="red"]-25[/COLOR]		[COLOR="green"]25[/COLOR]
MISSOURIS	--		[COLOR="green"]25[/COLOR]		-10
SIOUX		--		--		[COLOR="green"]25[/COLOR][/B]

ETC...

 

[KaiserBenjamin]

The trick is to blitz for the Portuguese Mission. If you can get supplies early on you can crush the other Native American civs around you to get strong enough to eventually tackle the Europeans.

 

[Ambreville]

The trick is to blitz for the Portuguese Mission. If you can get supplies early on you can crush the other Native American civs around you to get strong enough to eventually tackle the Europeans.

You might not need to actually beeline to get the Portuguese Mission, but yes, don't waste too much time getting there. First, you need to secure axemen to hold off any early attacks and grab some barb towns nearby before someone else does. The other thing too, with control of some Supplies, you can favor your allies, especially if you know how to suggest vassals to research one thing or attack a target someplace. Can be pretty useful. Euros can easily get Horses by trading Supplies.

I just switched Elizabeth to Imperialist/Financial (in the CIV4LeaderheadInfo file). I'm hoping this will help England a bit when it's run by the AI. Anyone wants to playtest that? I can't swing the time right now...

 

[woodelf]

Just when you thought your updating was finished....Bakuel released 20 more units that you might find useful.

 

[the_problem]

i think you may need to adjust goody huts, i started a new game with the version i downloaded today and i got astronomy as a free tech. seeing as it was worth a few thousand beakers, and it was turn 3 when i was researching much cheaper techs, they seem a bit unbalanced. I was playing on noble, warlords 2.08