Status
Not open for further replies.

oak_

Chieftain
Joined
Aug 22, 2024
Messages
1
To create a more inclusive and historically accurate game, I suggest adding Jewish civilizations to Civilization 7. The Jewish presence in the Levant has played a significant role throughout history, with rich contributions to culture, philosophy and religion.

Here’s a brief history highlighting the Jewish Civilization in the Levant:

c. 1200-900 BC: The Hebrew Canaanites formed the United Kingdom of Israel.

900-586 BC: The United Kingdom of Israel was divided into the Kingdom of Israel in the north and the Kingdom of Judah in the south.

586 BC: The two kingdoms were destroyed by the Babylonians.

538-332 BC: The Jews returned to the land of Israel under Persian rule, rebuilding their Second Temple and establishing the semi-autonomous Jewish kingdom of "Medinat Yehuda" ("State of Judah").

332-140 BC: Alexander the Great conquered the Levant, leading to Hellenistic rule.

140 BC - 73 CE: The Jewish Hasmonean dynasty established an independent kingdom after revolting against Hellenistic rule. The Jewish Herodian dynasty later ruled as client kings under Roman influence.

73 CE - 136 CE: Following the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 CE during the First Jewish-Roman War, Judea was fully integrated as a Roman province known as Judaea.

136 CE: The Bar Kokhba Revolt against Roman rule was crushed, leading to severe repercussions, including the renaming of the province to “Syria-Palaestina” to erase Jewish ties to the land.

Post-136 CE: Despite the catastrophic results of the revolts, many Jews were expelled or taken as slaves across the empire. but there were also Jewish communities remained in the region under Roman rule.

4th-6th centuries CE: Under Byzantine rule, Jewish communities maintained their traditions, and synagogues were built or renovated.

7th-11th centuries CE: During Islamic rule, Jewish communities experienced varying degrees of tolerance and saw a cultural revival, with continued synagogue construction and scholarship.

12th-13th centuries CE: The Crusader period brought new challenges, but Jewish communities managed to preserve their practices.

16th-19th centuries CE: During Ottoman rule, the Levant experienced significant upheaval. Despite the challenges, Jewish communities managed to maintain their religious and cultural practices.s.

19th & 20th centuries: In response to growing antisemitism and the desire to revive the Jewish homeland, large waves of Jewish migration to the region occurred, known as Aliyahs. This movement eventually led to the establishment of the modern State of Israel in 1948.

Here are some suggestions for potential leaders and civilizations that could be included in Civilization 7:

Civilizations: Kingdom of Israel / Kingdom of Judah / State of Israel

King Josiah of Judah (640-609 BC) - A significant figure in the late Kingdom of Judah, Josiah is known for his efforts to centralize power in Jerusalem, strengthening the kingdom during a period of Assyrian decline. Josiah is remembered for his ambitious infrastructure projects and efforts to restore and beautify Jerusalem, including significant renovations to the Temple. His reign is often viewed as a period of cultural and religious renewal in Judah.

King David (c. 1000 BC) - Traditionally credited with uniting the Israelite tribes and establishing Jerusalem as his capital, David’s historical role is debated, but he is seen as a central figure in the early history of the Israelite monarchy.

King Solomon (c. 970-931 BC) - Known for extensive building projects, including the First Temple in Jerusalem, Solomon’s reign marked a period of relative peace and economic prosperity. His historicity is also debated, but his era represents a high point in the united monarchy’s power.

Judas Maccabeus (c. 165-160 BC) - Leader of the Maccabean Revolt against the Seleucid Empire. His military successes and leadership were pivotal in the establishment of the Hasmonean dynasty. His role is celebrated for initiating the struggle for Jewish independence.

John Hyrcanus (134-104 BC) - A prominent Hasmonean leader, Hyrcanus expanded the Jewish state’s borders and strengthened its autonomy. He is known for his successful military campaigns, which secured key territories and helped consolidate Hasmonean rule.

Herod the Great (37-4 BC) - A masterful builder and diplomat, Herod transformed Judea with monumental construction projects, including the expansion of the Second Temple, the fortresses of Masada and Herodium, and the port city of Caesarea.

David Ben-Gurion (1886-1973) - The primary founder of the modern State of Israel and its first Prime Minister, Ben-Gurion was instrumental in declaring independence in 1948 and leading the new nation through its formative years and early conflicts.

Golda Meir (1898-1978) - Known as the “Iron Lady” of Israeli politics, Golda Meir was Israel’s fourth Prime Minister. Her leadership during the Yom Kippur War and her role in international diplomacy left a lasting impact on the nation’s history.

Including Jewish Civilizations in Civilization 7 would add depth and diversity to the gameplay. We hope the developers remain loyal to historical accuracy, offering a fuller and more nuanced picture of world history.

I am certain that this post will attract antisemites and trolls, but it’s crucial to prioritize historical accuracy regardless. While some argue that Jews are merely a religion and not an ethnicity, extensive scientific research confirms that Jewish communities share a common ancestry from the ancient Levant. Jews have preserved a continuous ethnic and cultural identity, with approximately two-thirds of Israeli Jews having ancestors who never left the Middle East. It’s important for the developers to stay true to historical facts and not be discouraged by negative reactions.
 
I've been arguing for the inclusion of Israel in some form since the days of Civilization V.

The Twelve Tribes, Israel, Judah, Outremer, and the modern nation-state have all been hugely impactful on world and western history, much more so than the majority of civilizations represented in the game.

Moderator Action: Statement removed. Please do not make baseless accusations. leif

In Civ VII's ages system, I'd love for there to be a progression path from Judah -> Outremer -> Israel

Here are some of my previous Levant civ ideas:

Hasmonean Empire
Leader: Judas Maccabeus




Leader Ability: The Hammer of God
  • Any time a Hasmonean unit kills a missionary, apostle, or inquisitor of a foreign religion, it gains a free promotion.
Unique Ability: The Chosen People
  • 50% discount on purchases of Great People with faith
Unique Unit: Zealot
  • All extant Zealots gain a permanent +1 to attack (retained with upgrade) any time a foreign missionary spends a charge spreading its religion to a Hasmonean city (+2 for apostles).
  • After a Hasmonean apostle has launched an inquisition, all newly trained Zealots have one "Remove Heresy" charge
Unique District: Temple Mount
  • Replaces Holy site. Must be built on a hill. Takes less time to construct than Holy Sites and does not count against the city's district limit.
  • Generates Great Prophet points equal to its adjacency bonus.
  • Cities with a Temple Mount block half of the religious pressure emanating from foreign cities, missionaries, and apostles.
Agenda: Maccabean Revolt
  • Like Civilizations that spend their Faith on Great Person patronage. Dislikes Civilizations that use their Faith to purchase missionaries and Apostles.

The Hasmoneans are the spoiler to other Civilizations that are pursuing a Religious victory. Other Civilizations have to expend far more missionaries and apostles to convert Hasmonean cities, which only makes Hasmonean units more formidable militarily.
The strategy with the Hasmoneans is to build plenty of cheap Temple Mounts, blocking foreign Religions and using the Faith to rush cheap Great People. In that way they're a counter to Brazil in addition to Spain.

Outremer

Leader: Godfrey of Bouillon

Civilization Ability: Penitential Warfare

Gain Faith when killing units from Civilizations that follow a different religion, sacking Holy Sites in cities following a foreign Religion, and capturing cities following a foreign Religion.

Leader Ability: Crusader King
Upon capturing the Holy City of a foreign religion, gain one relic.
If Outremer has founded a Religion, all religious buildings in that city will instantly begin emanating religious pressure for Outremers Religion instead, and Outremers Religion may add one of the conquered Religions Follower Beliefs to its own.

Unique Unit: Crusader
Replaces Knight. When first deployed, joins any of the following Military Orders (unique promotion):
Knight Errant: This unit gain Culture from kills and can move onto mountains, rainforrests, or woods with its final movement point​
Knight Hospitaller: This unit heals itself on kills and heals all adjacent allied units each turn​
Knight Templar: This unit gains Gold on kills and extra Gold from pillaging Holy Sites​
Knight Teutonic: This unit gains Science on kills and extra Science when it triggers a Tech Tree Eureka​

Unique Building: Sepulchre
Replaces Temple. Has all of the same yields, but three slots for Relics, each of which confer different bonuses:
  • Slot One grants a slight bonus to attack to all melee, spear, and ranged units.
  • Slot Two grants a slight bonus to defense from all city-walls and forts.
  • Slot Three grants a slight bonus to the Theological Combat and Religious Pressure of Missionaries and Apostles
These bonuses stack across Outremer's empire. Having many cities with Sepulchres, each with a Relic in slot one grants massive bonuses to attack

Agenda: Advocate of the Holy Sepulcher
Loves Civilizations that have gifted or Traded Outremer a Relic and loathes those that hoard a Relic to themselves


Bonus: City-State Idea!
Malta
Suzerain Bonus: Upon receiving their first promotion, ground units (artillery, cavalry, melee, ranged) are inducted into the Military Order of Knights Hospitaller.
This promotion does not heal the unit, nor does it end its turn.
(When leasing Malta's military, all of its own units will be Hospitallers as well)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I was also thinking about this topic last night. I will say, when it comes to the idea of a Hebrew civ, Civ 7 is probably the best time + way to do it, as not only is the age-based civs and decoupling of leaders from civs going to lead to a lore more granularity (and likely lot more civs over leaders), but a lot of the pushback to the inclusion of Israel tends to be based around the perception of the modern state of Israel.

But, if you have Israel / Judah / the Hebrews in the Age of Antiquity, you’d largely sidestep those issues, at least IMO, because it would be abundantly clear that this civ is the Biblical Israelites, contemporaneous with Babylon, Rome, ancient Egypt, etc.; and basically only covering anything up to maybe the destruction of the second temple in 70 CE at the latest. It would have zero ties to the modern state except potentially just being named the same, just like Egypt already

A similar argument could also be made for Tibet as either an Antiquity or Exploration civ, allowing it to be represented when it at its peak, but ‘not giving the illusion of it as a separate country in the modern age’ as it wouldn’t be a Modern-era civilization. Which would hopefully be enough to placate Chinese opinions; it would be just another potential ‘granular representation of ancient China’, etc etc
 
Ancient Israel could now get in pretty easily with the Ages system, I also hope to see it
 
I've read a book by israeli archeologist that "United Kingdom" is an ancient propaganda piece because archeological digs proved there was a difference in material culture between lands of Israel and Judah since the very beginning.
 
Moderator Action: Hey, we do maybe know half of the civilizations, so we do not know, they might already be in! Let's please wait with civ-speculations, and focus on the ones where we have at least a minimum amount of information.
Thread closed.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom