Advice on Earth18 game

[Pangaea]

I'm a beginner playing on Chieftain, have found all civs (I think) in the 'old' world and am currently leading on points. Started as France, and after a botched attempt, managed to take down Rome early, and later on Germany and Greece. So in 1190AD I basically control all of Europe, bar England and Spain, who I have good relations with.

I'm wondering where to go from here. Maybe the wise thing is to work on diplomacy and try to make more friends, while pumping out buildings and earning culture points, but I am finding it a tad dull. Would it be suicide to take on Russia? If I understand the icons correct, I am 50% stronger than them, but as history has shown it's tricky to take on that mass of land. With 12 cities they'll only get stronger though.

The other practical war is with Egypt, but I have good relations with them, so it's a bit nasty. Same with Spain. Just about everybody hates Japan, but they are so far away, and it seems impossible to get any AI v AI fighting. Twice I've gotten them to agree, and paid a bunch of gold one time, but I didn't see a single unit doing anything. Then they signed a peace treaty. Bah.

I have a fair bit of Macemen and Musketeers (was surprised the latter were weaker attackers than the Macemen though) and some Catapults, with at least one Trebuchet on the way. Thinking about pumping out Macemen and going to war with Russia.

Looking for advice on where to go from here. Any ideas?

 

[CivConVict]

Medieval and renaissance warfare is all about siege weapons. You're gonna need much more trebuchets than just one (catapults aren't much use once the enemy has longbow men). Better yet, go for Steal instead of Military Science and build some cannons. Should be easy to overrun Russia with those and some musketeers.

 

[Paw]

Isabella almost always founds a religion, and thus on earth18 madrid is almost always a juicy holy city. Well worth taking. After that, I'd build a small navy to ferry my troops to england and wipe them out. Build lots of siege though. Catapults are fine to bombard city defenses, but you'll want some suicide trebuchets to weaken city defenders before you unleash your macemen.

After that I'd probably settle down and use the awesome land europe has to tech to rifling (for rifles) and steel (for canons) and then take on russia. Then you can keep sweeping east into persia/india/china/mongolia or you can detour to the middle east and africa. Either way the game should be in the bag by then.

 

[huerfanista]

Your screenshots are not very helpful in letting anyone asses the situation (other than letting us know that Russia has longbows). Attaching a save of your current position would be the most helpful, but screenshots of the tech trading screen at least give some more relevant information. What's important is not where YOU are in the tech tree, but where Catherine is.

Having said that, medieval war with Russia is certainly a possibility (I've done it successfully many times), but a lot depends on what kinds of units she can counter with. Does she have maces, xbows, or horse archers? Has she traded someone for ivory, and therefore have war elephants? Does she have engineering yet? Xbows will be big trouble for your maces unless you have a counter-unit in your stack (muskets, horse archers or war elephants). If she has maces, you need to promote some of your own maces or muskets to shock in order to be able to defend in the open. And seige is of primary importance - lots of trebs to knock down defenses and inflict collateral damage (you'll lose some, so bring extra - at least half of your stack should be seige). Also be aware that she could bribe someone else to declare on you, so try to assess the diplomatic situation beforehand. At the very least, beg 10 gold from all of the civs that are pleased with you just before you declare on Russia. That way you'll have a 10-turn peace treaty with them and they can't be bribed against you during that time. Good luck.

 

[DaveMcW]

Research Steel, build cannons, kill everyone.

 

[Pangaea]

I didn't see any replies before I went back to the game, but as it turns out (thus far) I have left Russia alone, and am on pretty good terms with them now. Almost all of Asia ganged up on China for a little while. Shame AI wars don't last long at all, but at least there was some action.

I started off by taking out Egypt, and then simultaneously Spain. They were pretty weak so I started to move half my troops through Finland and into Scandinavia and praparing of the Line etc to take on England - when suddenly everybody started hating England. Not completed with them yet, as it's a nag to get troops over to those islands, but it'll be a breeze once we get properly landed.

Spent half an eternity sending a settler with a ship around West Africa to settle in the gold in the south, and have taken over most of Africa. Mali is my vassal (what prompted me to go after Egypt really, as they were enemies). Have gotten far up the tech tree now, with oil and uranium popping up, so it's just a matter of how I will win.

Been a very long game in hours, I'm always slow, but it's been good fun. It's only about 1600, so think I have about half the turns left, so plenty of time to take on Asia if I want to. Will spend some peace time to build up troops again and perhaps get airplanes, and then blitz over them.

At least at this level it's probably easy when the start is allright, and in this game it was as Rome got taken down before they were dry behind the ears.

Was pretty surprised to see both Arabia and India end up as vassals to Persia in the same turn, so that will be a handful if I take them on. But should be good fun I reckon.

I'm never quite sure what troops to use, so I've tended to bring some rifles, musketeers, knights, grenadiers and macemen. Plus a load of trebuchets and cannons. Then attack with whichever has the highest percentage chance, after taking down (most of) city defence from distance.

 

[revengeofmakno]

It looks like you were strong enough that almost any strategy would be successful. If you get into a situation like that again, I think the advice that people were giving was the best kind, i.e.
1) Have plenty of siege or better yet cannons if you can.
2) If Isabella had a holy city with a shrine, you would be foolish not to take it. Maybe it didn't make any difference here but if the game was more difficult, that shrine could be a real difference maker.

I'll add that England is generally not that difficult to take if you have a tech lead. It is nearby so you don't suffer heavy maintenance costs for doing it and it secures a flank perfectly.

Always watch out for Catherine on Earth18. She will start slow but once she gets going, she can get on a huge roll and come at you with immense armies. What to do with her demands and aggressiveness is a problem that has to be addressed sooner or later on Earth18. Therefore the sooner she is taken down or crippled, the better. Egypt on the other hand, is seldom a military problem and can be put on the back burner.

 

[Pangaea]

By having so much siege, is the strategy people use actually to first bombard down city defence and then attack with siege on the actual units? Ie, not with macemen or whatnot as I did?

Right now I'm in a huge tech lead so will try to take on Russia when I have time to play again (after dealing with England). As you say, Russia started out pretty slow, but now they are starting to steamroll a bit, and are churning out units. I tried to play a bit realistic, so didn't want to wage war on people I was on good terms with. So in that sense it was good England fell out with me (and everybody else).

Think Madrid was the holy city for Hinduism, though I'm not sure how much this really matters? Seems like free religion is a good thing, as I get points for each religion in the cities.

Do people generally play with or without spies and random events btw? I turned those off. Do they matter much?

Perhaps the AI give us too much breathing space on Chieftain, so I will try the next level next time, and hopefully get by. It's a fun map to play, and quite interesting to see to what degree history repeats itself.

 

[revengeofmakno]

Personally, I play more of the Earth map than any other and find it difficult to get interested in the randomly generated maps.
From what you wrote, it sounds as if you might not be aware that a shrine in a holy city will generate one gold/turn for every city on the map (not just yours) that has that religion. That can mean big $$$ ! (and more with bonuses) If Madrid is the holy city of Hinduism and there is no shrine there, then get a great prophet ASAP and send him/her there to build the shrine.

The standard way to attack a city before flight is to have enough siege/cannons to take out the cultural defences in one turn and then a few more to suicide attack and weaken the defenders for the regular troops to take the place with a minimum of casualties. If you have a big tech lead or bombers, the amount of siege can be reduced considerably but macemen and muskets, for example, can have a very tough time against longbows defending a city not reduced by siege weapons.

Random events tend to even out in their impact over time but they can be entertaining. Once in a while, one will give you a larger boost or set you back considerably. Spies are a large complication but there is no doubt that they can have a big impact on the game. Some like to use them at the moment of attacking a city to temporarily send it into revolt so that its cultural defenses are down. I usually have both turned on.

 

[Pangaea]

The Mahabodhi is there, which seems to be the shrine for Buddhism. It generated 23 gold a turn. Pretty hefty income. I have also founded Taoism, but don't think I have a shrine for that. Do you need a great person to build a shrine?

Actually, I have three shrines (generating 23, 22 and 15 gold a turn), but all have been built by others.

Sounds like I have too little siege then. With a big empire, it takes aaaages for it to reach the battlefront, especially with a 2-front war, so I tend to just use what I have nearby to get down the defence enough, and then send in the troops. Think I should build a good lot more, and then use them instead. I've used many different troops, so can usually find one with 60+% chance, but would be nicer to not have to go through those motions every time, clicking on each and checking the percentage.

What kind of random events can happen? I saw the Civ 5 video of a game, and they mentioned something about it being taken out, as people didn't like to suddenly have a volcano erupt (iirc). Think the game is complex enough as it is for me as a beginner, so will probably play with both off next time too. I'm scratching my head each time I have to choose a technology

 

[Pangaea]

I have some questions about Apostolic Palace. Arabia built this some time ago, and I didn't pay much attention to it. But I'm getting a bit worried as new votes are held every so often. Can Arabia win a diplomatic victory via the Apostolic Palace, without building the UN? If yes, do I have much time to smash him up, or is there anything else I can do?

I attach some screenshots that will hopefully show the situation.

 

[Karalysia]

That city placement......it bothers me.

 

[Derakon]

The AP diplomatic victory is only possible if every civ in the game can vote on it (which in turn requires every civ to have at least one city in the AP's religion). Given the nature of the Earth 18 map, this isn't going to happen for awhile. Still, best to control the AP if possible.

Also, just a quick note: musketmen are stronger than macemen so long as you aren't fighting melee units. Given that the primary use of human-controlled armies is smashing AI-controlled cities open, said armies tend to face a lot of ranged units. In those situations musketmen have better strength (though, sadly, they can't take the City Raider promotion).

In short, once you get Musketmen it's worth building several and taking a mixed force when you attack. Just like you make some Pikemen for stack defense against Knights.

 

[Pangaea]

That city placement......it bothers me.

Which one? If you refer to the last screenshots they have most likely bee conquered so it's the AI's fault. Just finished the game now, and only built five cities throughout.

Ended up going for a space victory in 1915, though I probably could have gotten the UN victory some 20 turns before (assuming we only need that one vote passed). Taking on Russia and then the world was just too much of a haggle. The game was already won, it was just to get it done with. By the end I had finished every single tech (was on Future Tech 6, whatever that means), and was raking in points and money all over the place. Took control over Africa and sent a lot of troops to the borders with Russia. But by the time England had finally fallen I was fed up of that micro-ing, and shortly thereafter Russia came asking to be my vassal. I practically stopped building military right then, and went for all kinds of money, tech and culture upgrades.

Will try Warchief next. If I get the start sorted it will hopefully be okay - though I suspect the AI will be more aggressive and less diplo-friendly too.

What's up with the nukes btw? I got a couple while I was still formally at war with China, and tried to send them on their villages, or anywhere really. I only got a green spot on some fishing vessels in my own backyard. The Civopedia said they had unlimited range, but is that correct? I wanted to see what kind of damage they did

Finally moved up from the Don Quale category. Got Julius Cesar with 15,999 points. Happy with that. 15000 better than in the tutorial

 

[Derakon]

Tactical nukes have limited range; generally, if you want to launch them at the enemy, you need to load them onto missile subs first.

ICBMs have unlimited range, but they're easier to intercept than tacnukes, assuming your target has built the SDI.

 

[Pangaea]

That must have been the one then. A big fat red button, and it said unlimited range either in the game itself or in the Civopedia. But no matter what I pointed it at I didn't get a green square under the marker, so it wouldn't launch. Unless I had tried to launch ICBM at a poor fisher in the lake outside the launchpad

I was so far ahead in tech that I doubt anybody else had built anything to intercept those things. While I was building nukes and so forth, I was seeing longbowmen inside cities. I just wanted to see what damage they could do, as I was quite disappointed with missile battery or whatever they were called (probably wrong) that only damaged the city's defence with 16%. My cannons can do that..

Also, why did it work to launch the spaceship when not all the engines were in? I just tried to see what would happen. Maybe I got less points for not waiting to the other items were done producing, but I found it odd I could launch it when it wasn't complete.

 

[Derakon]

You only need one each of the engine, thruster, and panel items. Lacking engines and thrusters means the ship takes longer to reach Alpha Centauri; lacking panels means the ship may not make it.

 

[Pangaea]

Oh. Never knew that It said 40% complete in the screen after it was launched, and took 12 turns to complete the journey. Would this have been faster if I installed all the parts?

 

[Pangaea]

I played another game yesterday, on Warlord this time. Started as Germany. I probably made a mistake in not trying to take down Rome ASAP. I blocked the copper, but they were piling out archers, which my axemen couldn't quite deal with. So it took a while before I got his head on a platter. This meant I didn't get as much land as I would have liked, though I did settle Scandinavia and in the end got Spain too.

At some point half the world declared war on me, which was a mouthful I can say! Just as I managed to defend against Russia, and got peace with Arabia, China and a couple others, my previous solid ally France attacked from the other side. And then Greek launched me from the south (and I lost a nice village). In the end I almost snatched win from a massive 30-village China through space, but they got there first. If I hadn't thought I could have won a dipomatic by building the UN perhaps I could have gotten there first. Live and learn. Diplomatic seems tough unless you're big and can muscle votes around (like the real world).

It wasn't a great game, and I probably made piles of mistakes. I'd like to learn though, and as the end-game is so slooooow I'm not too keen on learning them by errors all the time.

I'm not sure what screenshots I should post, but here are a few saves. Would be nice if somebody could have a look and say some of the worst mistakes I made, so I can learn and hopefully do better next time.

I tried to build my 2nd city to be a great people farm, but don't think I succeeded very well. Just wasn't quite sure how to deal with the whole thing. But had it in a good spot I think, and built a pile of farms there.

It should be said that due to a freakin' random event I had to go to war with China shortly after building the UN, so that shot any chance at diplomatic. Though I probably wouldn't have made it even without it as China and Russia was sort of allied and both are huuuuuge. Before that I got decisions slightly in my favour, but after I got booted as the Secretary General and never got back in. Even after gifting away piles of technologies to try to appease people.

 

[cabert]

I tried earth 18 with Germany on warlord, normal speed.
Here is what I did :
move the settler 1W (towards France), start building a warrior with the forested pig (= 2F,2H)
after a few turns my explorer gave me a worker from a hut.
When I had 2 warriors and 1 more under production, I moved them towards Paris.
I was lucky, the first warrior won his fight, but there was the second guy ready to finish anyway.
2 capitals for me.
I then built 2 more warriors, and moved them towards madrid.
I got a little less lucky since it autorazed (with buddhism in it ), but it netted me a worker.
I then used 4 warriors for Rome. a third capital for me, another free worker.
I then went for greece.
Another capital.
That's 4 good cities, room for more and a kickstart into the world.
I'm sure you'll find that on earth 18 in Europe, there is no other way than war.