Ahmadinejad: THe US must apologize over nuclear issue

BasketCase said:
Because if they don't, their nuclear research facilities are going to get bombed out of existence by Israel. I know this, because Israel has already bombed other nations' nuclear facilities at least twice.

Iran is going to be deprived of its nuclear program one way or the other. Either by invasive pressure from the U.S., or by warfare. Which way do you want it?
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Probably thought the same about North Korea though, didnt you?
 
Bronx Warlord said:
This guy can kiss my ass, that rat fuvck and his country have the blood of some of my friends on there hands. Enough for me to make up my mind, imho.
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Jesus man get a grip... Imagine if every German felt that way about every Russian, ever Pole about every German, every Irish about every Brit etc... you dont like them so theyre guilty. well its a good thing you qualified that with IMHO cause I doubt youre feelings make Iran guilty for anyone else
 
skadistic said:
No where did I read that the mulla's don't pick who the people can vote for in that comparison between Tehran and the rest of the country. Bottom if the mulla's want him there he will stay there, if they want him gone they will put some one else in his place who they want. Its not like moderates or liberals are ever barred from elections...... oh wait they are. Because the elections are controlled by not the people but the ruling mullas.
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what you read is the tale of a contested election. there were many people running for the presidency in Iran, and no one knew who was going to win it. there was no tampering with the election results. i am working several days in a row, and that pretty much takes up all my time, so i plan on responding more in depth within a day or two with better references and better facts, whatever. in 2005 you had Rafsanjani running for pres again, and he sorta belongs to the good ol' boys crowd, i cannot remember if khatami ran again, and you had others (i think larijani) and from a teaching position came this guy no one here in the west had ever heard of (barring the experts) named Ahmadinejad. he won his election fair and square on a populist platform, he had promises abuot the economy, he gave lip back to the US, he defied the West and kept pushing for nuclear energy, stirring up emotions in iranians that this technology is their natural right.

you have a dynamic society in Iran, a society that is held in check by the vanguard of the revolution. when powerful adversaries such as the US threaten Iran, the vanguard tightens up and closes the society to protect it from outside threats. national security is primary, when that is secured, more liberal reforms can take place. these sorts of reforms are exactly what khatami was leading prior to the chaos that erupted after 9/11. after that everything changed, Iranian national security took a turn for the worse. everyone in the country felt the new pressures from the US, and so it created an environment in which a populist like Ahmadinejad could win the election.

lesson? quit threatening Iran and you will watch them reform. over here, so many hold on to this fantasy that eventually Islam will just go away. this fantasy is based i think on our assumption that muslims will privatize Islam in the way that christians have privatized Christianity (a long process that began with modernity during the Enlightenment). but this is just a fantasy, it is very unlikely that the same history will play out in Iran. so we have to ask ourselves a question, are we willing to confront Islam until it is destroyed, or do we find a way to live in peace with it?

democracies don't just come about by demanding it of people. a democracy is a complex form of government that relies heavily on the development of NGOs and civil society. this specific type of civil society is developing in Iran, a development which is severely dampened by all the drum beats for war. Iranian national security has been dramatically threatened since 9/11, their worst enemy is now surrounding them on all sides, this has forced the conservatives in the government to suspend the liberties Iranians were enjoying prior to the invasion of Afghanistan back in '01. haven';t we learned in Iraq that democracy cannot be forced on people? democracy is an emergent system, a system that grows from within, it is not made with bombs. there are sincerely devout muslims in Iran (witness Khatami) who are very much in favor of opening Iranian society up, but those voices will not be heard when you have a bomb happy George Bush making all these threats. he has a very distorted view of reality and he thinks he's helping the Iranian people out by making all these crass remarks, but he's not, he's making matters worse. he thinks he can destroy everything he doesn't like and build it anew, but that's just messed up and horribly inefficient. work with what you've got, and what you got in Iran is not a democracy, no, it has never claimed itself to be one, but what you do have is a republic and you have representation by the common people. that's saying a lot in that part of the world, we need to work with it, and part of that working with it involves giving up the fantasy that Iran will no longer be an Islamic state. that's just not going to happen, because for every bloodthirsty liberal iranian that is screaming for the downfall of the regime, you will be able to find a thousand more devout muslims who are not willing to say the same.
 
Still don't see where it says Iran's mullas doesn't hand pick who can run. Moderates are barred from running when they are destined to win. But you make some more excuses. Blame it all on America.
 
skadistic said:
Still don't see where it says Iran's mullas doesn't hand pick who can run. Moderates are barred from running when they are destined to win. But you make some more excuses. Blame it all on America.
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so what's your option, go to war?
 
skadistic said:
Still don't see where it says Iran's mullas doesn't hand pick who can run. Moderates are barred from running when they are destined to win. But you make some more excuses. Blame it all on America.
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who will win the american election? i don't bet, but if I did i would bet all i had that it would be a democrat or a republican. we can say that anyone could win, but we know that won't happen. the powered interests are well-represented in our society. despite the fact to so many not-so-powerful americans still don't have healthcare, we still don't have healthcare. yet, we have enough money to fight a trillion dollar war. the powerful in any society always find a way to represent themselves. american society is relatively immune from outside sabotage, iranian society is not. once they secure the Islamic state, then they can be more open. in that order.
 
PhotitheMalfeas said:
who will win the american election? i don't bet, but if I did i would bet all i had that it would be a democrat or a republican. we can say that anyone could win, but we know that won't happen. the powered interests are well-represented in our society. despite the fact to so many not-so-powerful americans still don't have healthcare, we still don't have healthcare. yet, we have enough money to fight a trillion dollar war. the powerful in any society always find a way to represent themselves. american society is relatively immune from outside sabotage, iranian society is not. once they secure the Islamic state, then they can be more open. in that order.
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How does healthcare explain that the the religious mullas don't hand pick who can run? Thats right it doesn't. But by all means obfuscate some more. Make some more excuses. Sabotage doesn't come from the outside in Iran it comes from with in. You know when the religious mullas bar the moderate and liberal candidates from running. But thats America's fault isn't it.
 
I recall Ahmadinejad's party loosing big time in the parliamentary elections. If the Mullahs really owned the country, that would've never happened.
 
For all you out there whose knees tremble at the word ahmadinejad as well as those who admire the man's spunk (not literally) here is a link to a nice article about him.

Lobster for Iran
 
I do not read the New Yorker regularly--I really need to catch up on my Seymour Hersh. That guy has some amazing contacts. This is probably yesterday's news for many of you, but some of you may not be familiar with this article. It is incredibly detailed about what may be in store before Bush leaves office. It is titled Shifting Targets: The Administration's Plan for Iran
 
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