AI Advantages per level and tips for Emperor

acantoni

Chieftain
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Feb 13, 2006
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Greetings!
First of all i'm greatly enjoying Wild Mana.
As a very very long time FFH2 player who played all modmods there is i'm currently back at wildmana after a few months inactivity and finding it really challenging.

I usually play at Monarch on a Erebus continent mapscript with small land , medium cohesion medium sea level and 10 civs total (me + 9 civ) on Quick speed which brings the game to a bloodbath very early on.

I found out that once i survive the beginning its usually quite winnable so i cranked up the difficulty to Emperor and wow! what a mess!

After a won game with Bannor (the save is in the bug thread) i'm trying Alexis and having a real hard time on it.
In my current game at around turn 70 i was attached by hippus with no less than 30 units who easily ripped out my superior but fewer in number morois.


So i'd like to ask you exactly what are the AI advantages for each difficulty level ?


From people playing at Emperor or more difficulty level do you have any tip to offer me on how to play the game (research, what to focus on, build up or rush,ecc) with the settings i described? That is with Alexis or whatever other civilization you may suggest.

Thank you very much !
Cant wait to get back at home and try again tonight :D

Fabio
 
greetings fellow italian or so I guess.

I found the going at Emperor level to be very difficult mainly for the bonuses the AI get regarding unit support cost. if I try to maintain an army as big as theirs, my economy gets real crappy, so I usually try to stay close to them but still behind... not cool since you'll always be seen as the weak guy that should be attacked. if you happen to have sheaim beside you, things get real hairy real quick with pyre zombies :lol: the fact that their unts start with enough XP for combat 2 right out of the gate doesn't help either.

to survive you gotta balance your choices really good, you're not allowed any non-vital tech or build. be aggressive with your units and farm as much XP as possible off animals and barbs, and keep those high xp units you have alive! tech very efficently so that you can get a good economy ASAP, which usually means get education quick and build cottages like they're going out of style. if you happen to have gold or good calendar resources nearby, you're lucky so do get mining/calendar fast. don't delay education too much though, it's vital as you start expanding. keep building cottages and protect them. as soon as it is viable get your T2 military tech of choice depending on your civ, and use it. don't delay that too much, or a neighbour WILL attack you and wipe you off the face of Erebus. imho the best time to get it is after Education, or after mining/calendar if you got lucky and don't need education ASAP. if you do this right, you should be in a pretty good position to play off the rest of the game, although the AI will definitely not be a pushover by any means, at any time. play off your strengths, and bang weaker civs on the head to get pillage gold and/or techs. treasure your longtime allies, trying to pleasure everyone won't work :lol:

nothing really specific here I'm afraid, but still useful I hope :D

edit: mysticism is not as good as it looks, don't let it tempt you. education is waaaaay better. get mysticism after your economy AND military are in good shape, that will be a good time to shoot for a religion.
 
Gekko gave some good advice, but i suspect with these settings you really need a favourable start and an early bloomer civ to survive.

If i had to play under your settings, i'd try to following:

  1. Play as Scions with Risen Emperor as leader ( 'coz he's charismatic)
  2. Find a spot with:
    1. lots of hills (a must)
    2. gold (extremely nice to have) or wine (will do)
    3. a river (nice to have)
    Don't worry if you end up having many unusable tiles. If you can't find gold or wine, go looking for 1. and 3. near the coast. Don't bother with calendar resources.
  3. Don't settle more than one additional city, unless the terrain makes it a no brainer. Better merge new awakened into your capital and expand by capturing cities.
  4. Beeline for Knowledge of the Ether and Bronze Working. If necessary take a detour for fishing.
  5. Adopt God King asap. My tech tree usually looks something like this: Mining ->Ancient Chants -> Mysticism -> Knowledge of the Ether -> Bronze Working
  6. Knowledge of the Ether will give you Korinna, and Bronze Working will give you Korinna the Red and Honoured Bands. Korinna the Red is an engine of destruction and can take down whole empires on her own until longbowmen start arriving.
    Once you have her, level her, and declare war as soon as possible. The AIs should still be using warriors, or archers and hunters at most. Don't level her on barbs for too long. Initially she can use a Honoured Band or two as cover, but soon she can operate entirely on her own.
  7. From this point onwards you have more flexibility. Exploration or Archery, depending on whether you have copper or not. Code of Laws and Writing should be priorities, too. Construction for catapults, or Cartography, if you have the shields for the Pact, ought to be another.
 
I just played a game as Maztl on immortal and found it very playable. I either played with beeing able to build improvement without tech or started in classical era. (Just do not enjoy not beeing able to do anything in the beggining)

I started next to Amurites. They had 13 times stronger army consisting mainly of fire bows and I was able to fight them off with hunters. Then I got ranger for the second war where I could turn the tables and capture one of their cities.

I find that hunting is the most important military tech for any nation. If you are able to get it before your first war you should be able to hold your ground.

This was erebus continents with 8 civs. So a little less cramped.
 
The jump from Monarch to Emperor is pretty big, especially with the AI and spawning madness in Wildmana.

Tips below. This is, of course, my own play style (which clearly works but is not necessarily the "optimal" style). I almost always play Emperor, normal speed, PerfectWorld2 map (options: allow Pangaea, start anywhere), standard size map (PerfectWorld maps are "big" so this is really large), ~12 total civs, no tech brokering (otherwise I rely entirely on tech brokering to keep up), with many of the neat toys turned on (deadly wildmana, dragons, houses, passive training, etc.). The maps sometimes give Pangaea (maybe ~33%), mixed continents/islands with interconnecting "sea bridges" (33%) or an isolated island start (33%). (I'd like to say here that I really love these maps. They each seem so unique and surprising.)

Phase I (turn 1 - 50 or so): Explore and Grow. You have some safe time here before the baddies show up, so get that scout out exploring. Even your single warrior can do a ~15 tile loop and safely return home (use him to spot goody huts for your 2nd scout). You should strongly consider building a 2nd scout to take advantage of the safe time, but this can be risky. By the end of this period you should have (and constantly maintain) the maximum number of "no upkeep" units (8 - 9) which are mostly warriors. Initial build order is really situational depending on available food tiles:
1) If any available sea food. Research Fishing first; build 1 scout, 2+ warriors (until Fishing), workboat(s), then worker, then warriors until you are paying -1 or so for upkeep. One nice advantage here is that the baddies have nothing to pillage for a while -- they are forced to attack you in your city.
2) No seafood, but one or more 3 food tiles. Build warrior, then worker (micromanage to grow to 2 just before you complete warrior), then warriors until maxed out.
3) No seafood, no 3 food tiles. Build worker first (with -10% food penalty, it will be 20 turns before you grow to 2, and then the worker will actually take longer to build); then warriors till maxed out.
4) No food tiles to develop. You really need to move that settler somewhere else, or consider a restart.

Phase II (turn 50 - 150): Keep a low profile and get some COMMERCE!
Be content in one city for a while. It's much easier to defend 1 city with 8 warriors than 2 cities with 4 each, or 4 cities with 2 each (those additional small cities don't gain you much, if anything, in "free upkeep" units). You will move through the tech tree faster with fewer cities. I also strongly suspect (although I don't know for sure) that a higher unit/city ratio makes you a less appealing target for other civs and wandering baddies, even when your comparative strength is a pathetic 0.2 (as it will be at this stage). Consider building 2nd city when: 1) you are swimming in excess food and 2) that 2nd city will provide some specific benifit NOW (e.g., adds happy resource(s) or copper and/or will overcome its cost by providing additional commerce NOW). Unfortunately, you have no choice now except to churn out warriors to replace the dead. They are cheap to produce and effective at high numbers, although also expensive to maintain at high numbers. I'll wait until my settler is 1 turn from completion, then churn out 5 (2-turn production) warriors for escort (you can delay completion of a unit for 10 turns without loss). So you may go to +5 on unit upkeep but this will only last a short duration as those warriors get beat down. Do your best to protect promoted units by sacrificing new ones. Keep a very close eye on unit maintanance. You may want to go into the +5 to +10 territory breifly (e.g., if Orthus is around) but you NEVER should have less than the max that have free upkeep.
Your first priority for your tiny 1 or 2 city empire (after eating and surviving, of course) is to get some COMMERCE. I would prioritize in this order:
1) Tech apporpriately and develop commerce tiles first (no brainer here if you have gold available). One or two fishing villages may be your first (and very good) real commerce producers.
2) Get Mystisism and go God King (really potent if you are focusing on one-city development), build Elder Counsel.
3) Trade! Don't underestimate this. A trade route plus lighthouse gets you +6 or so commerce at this stage (better than a gold mine without having to dedicate a citizen). Get two explores out quickly to circumnavigate your continent. Get sailing, get cartography (or not, if you have trade partner that already has it, which is common at Emperor), then keep trade-increasing techs and buildings high on your priority list (trade, currency, lighthouses, harbors, inns, etc.; especially keep in mind build bonuses for Organized or other leader traits). (I would have said here that the Great Lighthouse is a must, but this will require Optics in 9.0.)
4) Settle an early prophet. You might get one early by event or if you go for 2 specialist economy early (which may be worth it if you are Philosophical or go Pacifisism after maxing out warrior production) and it has a big effect at this stage.
5) Cotteges. You really can do without these if you have #1 or 3 above. But this may be your only option. Good luck defending cottages at this early stage.
6) Religion. Always develop something from 1-4 before this. The ONLY religous beeline I ever do is Lanun OO, and that is only because commerce is completely taken care of with fishing. And in any case, you will need to open trade routes before a religious holy city can pay much. In the special case of OO, consider delaying your 2nd city so that your capital is the holy city.

Phase III (turn 150 - 250): Don't get your @$$ kicked. Os-Gabella and/or Mahala will be stopping by to say hello in the early part of this phase. You should be looking toward winding down the warrior-for-the-meatgrinder production as your primary means of defence. Get out a single early hero (Severous, Rosier, Rantine, etc.) and some other early but effective troops (copper weapon-promoted axemen, a stack of death I adepts, hunters that have been well-experienced capturing animals, etc.). Consider shifting to Military State to reduce unit upkeep as your cities and army start to take off (also to allow rush buying). Remember, you don't need every possible unit in every game. Think about what you really need. I won't go into any military detail here; there are so many options and it is completely situational depending on your civ, available resources, and neighboring civs. The main point is that your particluar advantages are known and the coming challenges are very PREDICTABLE. If Sheaim are near, they will come for you. What will you do to counter them? You need to ask yourself this question long before it actually happens. Establish some means of early detection (hunter-bird is one, but not the only, option) and some means to counter (e.g., a flatland killing zone for your horsemen). You might need to declare war before they reach your borders. Your really should not be surprised by what comes. Don't over-build your military (you want to be using that gold for development). In most cases, you can still use last-minute, massive-warrior-production as part of your defence (that pyre zombe SOD might take 10, 20 turns to reach you after you see it). Consider (even if you are a builder) kicking some @$$ yourself after you face the onslaught. It's a good time to take a city after you have just killed their main SoD (but watch out! another civ might also be coming for a visit; this is why I often wait for phase IV for serious conquest). On the naval side, where pirates are the only real threat, put one trireme (buckaneer crew) on each resource and fishing village; replace as necessary (pirates are not that tough, really).

Phase IV (turn 250 and beyond): Pick one of many "overpowered" features and go with it. If you survive the onslaught in phase III (or by some luck of your starting position, it never happened), you are now well placed to conquer, develop super cities, or whatever floats your boat. I usually see my relative power ranking go from a low of 0.2 (early phase III) to about 1.0 by turn 270 or so, and then very quickly to 2, 3, and beyond (I've got my dedicated city with Heroic Epic cranking out units now). The basic idea is that there are many "overpowered" features in FFH (and mods thereof) both related to military and economy. Just pick one and go with it. Want a size 50 (non-fallow) super city with 12 trade routes? Play Mortmorgan. Sooo many options. If you survive phase III and are not now pulling ahead (or at least neck-and-neck) with the top AI civs, then you are doing something very wrong. In truth, I generally quit about turn 270 because I know (from much experience) that there will be no further surprises or challenges.

Edit: acantoni, I'm just guesstimating that turn 70 on quick speed, small map, puts you about turn 150 on my scale above (late phase II / early phase III). Of course, things just play very differently at different speeds. There is a point in the game that you just can't be ready for those stacks.
 
I think turn 70 on quick is more like turn 100 on normal.
 
He's also playing small map, which speeds things up too. In any case, I wouldn't be too surprised at such an SOD showing up at turn 100 on Emperor, although it is usually a little later.
 
So i'd like to ask you exactly what are the AI advantages for each difficulty level ?

open CIV4HandicapInfo.xml found in assets/xml/Gameinfo
 
I played fey at emperor today. Classical era.

At turn 60 Illian casted stasis so I declared war on Balseraphs and left them with one city and forciing them to accept fellowship of the leaves. then i attacked Koriatos and i'm leaving them thier capital as well since I do not want to suicide against thier archers.

Perhaps Fey are very strong. But then my wife playing Amurites starting in a huge jungle seems to be able to keep a army strong enough so that the AI is not threatening. Is the AI weaker in multiplayer?

But then my opponents did not have 30 units. But my experience is that you can survive very well with hunters.
 
Looking at the XML I find
<iAIFreeNobleHouseSupportModifier>25</iAIFreeNobleHouseSupportModifier>
<iAIFreeNobleHouseSupportModifier>20</iAIFreeNobleHouseSupportModifier>
under immortal. Guess it should only be <iAIFreeNobleHouseSupportModifier>20</iAIFreeNobleHouseSupportModifier>
 
Is the AI weaker in multiplayer?

I'm not certain how it works in MP. I think you each have to select the same difficulty for it to change, but I can't remember if I actually read that somewhere or if I'm making it up. I know it at least controls the benefits you get like free health, etc.
 
I have noticed that if we select different difficulty the AI seems way to easy. So we both play on emperor.
 
First of all thanks for all the answers i received in this thread :)

@tesb
Perfect ! this was i was looking for :)
@Till
Scion wasnt one civ i played with a lot, i must say their early game is extremely powerful (was quite easy at emperor to survive and conquer 2 other civs) but i found out they struggle a litlte in medium-late game due to low population, definetly will try to play them again
@Folket
Fey is another civ i'm not familiar with, guess i'll try with them too.
Thanks also for the tip about hunting (which wasnt one tech i prioritized...)
@Pazyryk
Very detailed and lenghty post. thank you!

I played a few more games in the mean time, with Calabim (Alexis or Flauros) i really have no chance and i constantly lose :p

Now i'm playing a game with sheela and holding my ground in the middle of the park (conquered bannor already and in war,winning vs svartalfar) though very behind in tech.

I played with Hippus too and managed to win a very bloody game which hanged in the balance till the very end.

In the end your suggestions are all very good and i found out success or failure for me depends a great deal on starting condition and if you can take out an opponent early on: if you can you're in for a good game,if you cant usually its a lost cause:(
Definetly need to try to use the recon line more. :)

If you got anymore tips for high level playing keep them coming!
 
My 2 cents then :)

I play different races and with different styles as said above. I prefer the Svaltar and Austrin myself, although the Amurites are fun to play too.

Basic strategy is keeping up with your opponent during the early stages. Some civs you just know they will come for you.. But it is not uncommon that your best buddy declares war on you too. I call it the lebensraum-war... The AI will declare on its friends if its the only other civ they know/can reach. (had a game recently in which i had 2.8 on the embers and they still declared war... three guesses what happened to him :))

Create chokepoints. Erebus map is especially suited for that. With a city in a chokepoint, a palisade, a wall and a stack of units you can defeat opponents twice as strong as you.

I usually try to stay out wars by being diplomatic (open borders and such) till i have my fireball throwing mages and other useful stuff and then start winning the game. on higher difficulty i also develop some catapults for an early skirmish (you need to have a way to get past the defenses and weakening a stack of oncoming units is priceless too :)

Play your strenghs.. as obvious as it may seem.. its the key to victory. Each race has a different techline and preferences. Only reseach what you need in a given situation, not what you normally do.. (one of the best examples, Austrin's first tech is cartography, but for the svaltar is one of the last "basic techs" i research).

Don't be afraid to expand, just expand in the right direction. If you think you can defend a city well, expand towards your enemy. If not then expand behind your own cities in the save area's (again erebus lends itself to that).

Hope it helps!
 
@Till
Scion wasnt one civ i played with a lot, i must say their early game is extremely powerful (was quite easy at emperor to survive and conquer 2 other civs) but i found out they struggle a litlte in medium-late game due to low population, definetly will try to play them again

Yeah, the middle and late game can be a little tricky, but the new houses make it easy to generate enough gold to stay in the game. Even without them, i rarely had issues, if the early game went well.

By the time you begin to feel the lower population growth, you should have eliminated your most dangerous opponents, so that your army no longer has to match theirs. Without the need to churn out units, the two most productive cities can begin to produce awakened and reborn.
Smart usage of those should keep your economy running smoothly, while you play towards cultural victory.

The only thing that really screws the Scions over is, in my experience, an isolated start. If you cannot expand by conquest, it's really difficult to get enough resources and enough population in the cities. But on small maps, that shouldn't ever be an issue.
 
My experience with Scions is a little different. I turtle in 3 or 4 cities (growing capital to happy limit, then other cities) until I have Religious Law. Then I have one city (usually capital) that constantly cranks out the cheaper settler/growth unit (forgot what it was called) at about 1 per turn. You can get to cultural victory soon after this point, or you can steadily grow and spread to domination like the blob.
 
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