AI Fix In Expansions?

[Casworon]

Lol I see this sentiment a lot... AI was bad, now is getting better (after 3 years!), lets’s praise the devs
Stop doing that. You just give an excuse for devs to release a low quality product, wrapped in a shiny paper (graphics).
It will be even worse with Civ7 because we are allowing that.
This is a leading developer of 4X games charging us a full, triple-A price for a game and expansions. The expectations bar should be much higher than what they give us.

While I do agree in principle. I think its worth noting that as a general rule the AI in 4x releases is abysmal.

One of the only games I can think of that stands out is civ iv, and they literally incorporated a modders AI improvements into the game when they released the expansions.

So the standard practice has always been 'devs make the art and mechanics, modders fix the AI'. And even if this means I might have to wait a few years after release to get the experience I want, I'm okay with this, I know it will get there eventually.

However Firaxis isn't letting us follow the standard practice anymore. And quite simply, the art and mechanics don't work if we can't fix the AI. So we are left with, essentially, a broken product for players like us who have put thousands of hours in 4x games and are looking for something more than what they are offering.

But that's fine. I can take my business and time elsewhere.

 

[tzu]

And even if this means I might have to wait a few years after release to get the experience I want, I'm okay with this, I know it will get there eventually.

Yeah! But painful as it is, Amanda Bonacorso (current civ6 lead producer) does in her latest interview not give a tiny spark of hope that they will release the sources even then, years ahead, at the end of the development cycle.

They could do it. If it were impossible, they wouldn't have said for years: "No decision yet." They can decide it.
They just don't want do it - at this time. They don't want do it anytime later. But who knows? Maybe they change their minds ... so let it be open ... keep all options, be free ...


While on the other hand I hear, that they will not become tired to support civilization&leader - collectors.

But that's fine. I can take my business and time elsewhere.

Players interested in own work on nifty game mechanics & AI are here 'caught in the drought' - or like frogs in lukewarm water.


Old World feels for me in some aspects like a sequel of civ4 and (even more) civ4basedColonization. More important: it solves with limited orders convincingly the problem of snowball balancing:

How shall it ever be possible to "balance" against the (existing, possible) AIs for hundreds of turns a *human* army
composed of an _unlimited number_ of __cheap__ units consisting of _unit types as requested_, _fully upgraded_ and at _full promotion level_?

Call it gamey or arbitrary, less would be more.

Old World has no uncertainty about sources or communication issues:

If you have any saves that show the AI doing something stupid, please post them here. This includes silly unit movement during the AI turn as well as bad suggestions of what tile improvements or units/projects/specialists to build. Maybe together we can make a decent AI before the game is done next year!

Thanks in advance!
Alex Mantzaris
Mohawk Games

You know, developers asking for "Help improve the AI"?!!

 

[Kwami]

Old World has no uncertainty about sources or communication issues:

Sure, but it does have teleporting armies that just appear during combat! Did they fix that, yet?

You know, developers asking for "Help improve the AI"?!!

Don't get too excited. The AI will still be easy to beat and you all will complain about it. That's just about guaranteed for any 4X game. I'd like to be wrong, but I'm probably not.

 

[tzu]

Sure, but it does have teleporting armies that just appear during combat! Did they fix that, yet?

"teleporting armies that just appear during combat" simply because your scouts haven't seen them coming ... or do you express the AI players do not abide the rules?? Do you have indications for that?

Don't get too excited. The AI will still be easy to beat and you all will complain about it.

Don't worry, I won't get "too excited". As a student I spent many lunch breaks in department stores playing against the upcoming chess computers and discussed a lot with other enthusiasts how to improve them ... for years their performance was really poor ... but then suddenly a Mephisto taught me fear, I couldn't win any more en passant ... au contraire, he often announced me a mate in five or so ... then it was real hard work to win. Don't worry, I won't go over board - I know how limited computers are.

 

[Starwars]

Sure, but it does have teleporting armies that just appear during combat! Did they fix that, yet?



Don't get too excited. The AI will still be easy to beat and you all will complain about it. That's just about guaranteed for any 4X game. I'd like to be wrong, but I'm probably not.

They are not teleporting any more than a Cavalry swooping in in Civ VI. The AI uses the same resources as the player does and the player can certainly learn how to counter it effectively.

The AI will always be handicapped against a good player, this is true. But there's a huge difference from Civ VI AI and how many mistakes it makes (not to mention how many WTF moments you have with it still) and something like Civ IV AI which sure as hell isn't some super advanced future computer AI but still can be extremely deadly if you're not playing well. This seems to be the case for Old World as well, though it's obviously still in Early Access.

I'm not looking for a challenge on par with playing a good human opponent but it'd be nice to see an AI that doesn't just mindlessly send single units into my territory to be picked off, that doesn't just shuffle units around when it could take out a unit of mine if it just focused, and that actually... fires its attacks (which still doesn't happen sometimes, particularly with citystates).
And that's just for the combat side of it.

But, it's also not going to happen unfortunately because this game is so many years into its lifespan now and it's just not a priority.