AI malus for lower levels?

[Aldor]

So I heard that the AI instead of receiving better research/production etc on higher levels just acts smarter. But so far I haven't heard of the opposite direction: what about the lower levels?

In Civ 4 I'm somewhere between Prince and Monarch level, but I enjoy going back a level or two sometimes because its just relaxing...the AIs are slower with expansion, and pose less of a military threat because they can't build that many units. If you have played monarch and then switch back to settler, its like the AI is standing still

Will Civ 5 work like that? Or will we basically have the same AI development speed in all levels (with only minor changes)? I'd hope it will be like in Civ 4.

 

[Ahriman]

So I heard that the AI instead of receiving better research/production etc on higher levels just acts smarter.

This is not the case. We have heard that at lower difficulty levels, the AI performs worse, so as you increase difficulty levels (from the bottom) the AI will get better.

We have NOT heard that the AI does NOT get research/production/etc. bonuses on higher difficulty levels.

We have heard nothing about how difficulty will affect these bonuses.

It is basically inconceivable that the highest difficulty levels would have no bonuses.
I do not believe they can program an AI that can challenge the human in a fair fight.

 

[Diplomat32]

The AI will act more aggressive on higher difficulty levels too.

 

[Kinseek]

Basically they programmed the AI as good as they could and called it "Monarch" or "Prince" difficulty (or somesuch). Settting the difficulty lower introduces certain handicaps in thinking for the AI - as well as giving player bonuses and perhaps AI maluses. Going above Monarch (or whatever) will also give the AI bonuses and players maluses (which in themselves have nothing to do with the smartness of the AI).

I do not believe for a second they have made an AI capable of giving a very good fight with all other things being equal - so you still have to give it some extra cheats.

So the new thing AFAIK is that they now give the AI thinking handicaps in addition to resource handicaps on the easier difficulty levels.

 

[Earthling]

So I heard that the AI instead of receiving better research/production etc on higher levels just acts smarter.

This is false.

 

[Matte979]

Actually this was explained by the designer in a podcast.

What happens is that the computer creates a list of what to do next and gives it a weight based on whats the best choice.

On higher difficulty it pciks from the highest (Best) choices.

But on lower difficulties it can pick a choice thats much lower (Worse Choices)

Add the tradtional bonuses etc and thats the diffrence.

 

[Zhahz]

I do not believe they can program an AI that can challenge the human in a fair fight.

I believe it's possible but it's unlikely because the AI has to "think" in a reasonable amount of time to keep turn length down. I'm a programmer - I usually think *anything* is possible in code.

Plus there's one principle AI programmer for combat AI. Throw in the rest of the dev team making comments and some beta testers. That vs the entire civ world pounding on the AI. No matter how good that one guy is at civ combat, and no matter how much feedback he incorporated into his AI, there will definitely be players after release that could thrash him one on one, and that will thrash any AI he creates.

I'm hoping that 1UPT, snipping excess, and the more clear combat system will allow for higher quality combat AI. The potential is definitely there. A lot about what they've done with design leads to the potential for much better tactical combat and much better combat AI, IMO.

I kind of like how Brad from Stardock approaches combat AI, which was somewhat duplicated by the better AI mods for IV:BTS. First, he thinks he's amazing at MP and uses that as a basis for his AI. Then over time he incorporates player feedback and checks out what players are doing, and as they patch the game he upgrades the AI to better handle or incorporate player strategies and tendencies.

Unfortunately, almost no devs follow the Stardock approach to post release support. Most just patch up problems. Stardock does that, but also adds so much free stuff it's like free expansions and improves their games over time. And it's not all disaster reaction to something like Elemental. They add value to their finished games too. :/

 

[Ahriman]

Unfortunately, almost no devs follow the Stardock approach to post release support. Most just patch up problems. Stardock does that, but also adds so much free stuff it's like free expansions and improves their games over time. And it's not all disaster reaction to something like Elemental. They add value to their finished games too. :/

Eh. As much as I've been a fan of Stardock in the past, I much prefer what looks like a very polished game from Firaxis than a game thats still 2 months away from being done like Elemental.

Its better for the game to not *need* a whole lot of post-release support.

 

[Krill]

IIRC, When Greg was playing publicly, he said something about the AI picking from a stronger pool of strategies the higher the difficulty was set (or maybe it was that the lower the difficulty was, the greater the pool of strategies it would choose from, making it more likely to play a subpar game).

 

[IdleEnergy]

What does the thread title even mean?

I'm not being obtuse or trying to spelling troll anybody, is it "malice?" or are we talking about something entirely different?

 

[sensual benny]

He means malus as an opposite of bonus, but he shouldn't use that word because nobody uses it. Say penalty or disadvantage. The Civ Fanatics forums see a lot of use of nonsense words, "boni" being the biggest offender.

 

[Duo]

Page 14 of the manual

Effects of Difficulty
“Prince” is the middle level. On that level neither you nor your AI opponents get any particular
bonuses. On levels below Prince you get bonuses in happiness and maintenance costs,
and you get better results from Ancient Ruins. Barbarians are less aggressive and less smart
on lower levels, as well.
On levels higher than Prince, the AIs receive increasing bonuses in city growth, production,
and technology. They may also get additional starting units and free techs to boot.

The AI may also get smarter. But it certainly seems to bonuses, too, and after a while I think that's the only way they can be continually challenging.

 

[Earthling]

I'm hoping that 1UPT, snipping excess, and the more clear combat system will allow for higher quality combat AI. The potential is definitely there. A lot about what they've done with design leads to the potential for much better tactical combat and much better combat AI, IMO.

1upt has lead to poorer-quality in AI in pretty much every videogame in history, so I would not expect this to be the case. There's a general problem of course of TBSs simply being very hard for an AI to manage combat in theory, having no real advantages. But a more complicated and micronmanagement intense system will always detract from the AI compared to a simpler system.

What we've seen so far also suggests the AI is at best so-so in combat.