AI work - call for example saves

[Koshling]

I'm about to start on surround and destroy AI specifically, and AI military AI work more generally.

It would be very useful if people could post saves (preferably of not too huge games, so likely middle age or earlier, or not very large maps if later) where the AI is about to stage an attack (particularly against a city, but also against unit stacks if good examples crop up) that looks like it can be improved. Ideally the save should be 1-2 turns before the actual attack.

Thanks in advance...

 

[ls612]

Here is one (it is big, but it has a very good and clear example) from a while back in my current game. I have my main stack in a fort by the city of Girsu, and am at war with the Carthaginians. They have their main stack a couple tiles away in their city. I remember that in that game the Carthaginians started moving on my fort a turn or two after this save, but never attacked (probably because they had bad odds). I hope this helps.

 

[strategyonly]

Do you want S&D on then at the start, because i haven't been playing with it, because i know its broke??

 

[ls612]

Do you want S&D on then at the start, because i haven't been playing with it, because i know its broke??

If SAD isn't on Koshling can easily turn it on via the Python console for testing.

 

[Koshling]

If SAD isn't on Koshling can easily turn it on via the Python console for testing.

I can?? How do I do that?

@SO - preferably with it on in the first place if possible

 

[ls612]

I can?? How do I do that?

@SO - preferably with it on in the first place if possible

Like this. It is linked in the Players Documentation thread. Just replace 51 with whatever enum number SAD has.

 

[Sgtslick]

All my games are on big maps
I wish you luck though - it'd be great to see AI improved militaristically.

I think one of the biggest flaws of the AI is there lack of seige units. Being able to hurt a stack of units with seige units so that the remaining units have a higher chance of winning the larger battle at hand is such a crucial tactic but one that the AI doesn't seem to grasp. I won't crap on about what I think AI needs, but just one more friendly reminder about how the AI doesn't use naval units offensively. Often they will have quite large navies but they mostly just hover around their coastal cities defensively. With such naval superiority they they should be bombarding & most importantly blockading coastal cities so they can't use water tiles etc.

 

[sp00n]

Oh, I have seen plenty of naval action in my games. In fact, most of the military strength often is almost solely their navy, but I still haven't encountered a d-day landing operation within my territory so far. Ever.

Although they did use transports to ship settlers next to my cities (I was on friendly terms with that civ though).

 

[Hydromancerx]

Oh, I have seen plenty of naval action in my games. In fact, most of the military strength often is almost solely their navy, but I still haven't encountered a d-day landing operation within my territory so far. Ever.

Although they did use transports to ship settlers next to my cities (I was on friendly terms with that civ though).

I would not call it a D-Day landing but many versions ago I had Viking-like raiding party from barbarian ships that would bring units across the water to my lands. It was very awesome. However it been so very long since I have seen the barbarians do this.

 

[sp00n]

Not sure if this is the right place for it, but if you're also interested in save games where the turn time takes longer than usual, this one takes me almost 4 minutes. The next turn was "only" just above 2 minutes.

I've caused some serious havoc with my spies in the Persian empire, gone all out on them with revolutions left and right, which most probably is the cause for this.
Maybe helpful for profiling.


// Edit
I did also notice some very very weird behaviour for this save game, which I could not replicate though (and which brought me back to this save game in the first place). I'm currently building Neuschwanstein, which requires Glasswares and Furnitures, of which I have plenty according to the Foreign Advisor screen (22 resp. 39). In my normal save game one turn later suddenly I had _0_ of both, which in effect prevented Neuschwanstein from being able to be continued. When testing this savegame the issue did not occur again, but it could happen for you. I can also provide the bugged save game, but I don't know if it'll do any good if the damage is already done (i.e. 0 of both ressources).

 

[Koshling]

Not sure if this is the right place for it, but if you're also interested in save games where the turn time takes longer than usual, this one takes me almost 4 minutes. The next turn was "only" just above 2 minutes.

I've caused some serious havoc with my spies in the Persian empire, gone all out on them with revolutions left and right, which most probably is the cause for this.
Maybe helpful for profiling.


// Edit
I did also notice some very very weird behaviour for this save game, which I could not replicate though (and which brought me back to this save game in the first place). I'm currently building Neuschwanstein, which requires Glasswares and Furnitures, of which I have plenty according to the Foreign Advisor screen (22 resp. 39). In my normal save game one turn later suddenly I had _0_ of both, which in effect prevented Neuschwanstein from being able to be continued. When testing this savegame the issue did not occur again, but it could happen for you. I can also provide the bugged save game, but I don't know if it'll do any good if the damage is already done (i.e. 0 of both ressources).

Yes, long turn time saves are also of interest, so thanks for this. You're right that a bugged save on the resources probably wouldn't help, since you really need to catch the turn they disappear in, so if this reproduces that I'll look into it also.

 

[Taxman66]

Koshling,

Here is a V28 save, sadly mostly after the fact, of my using 3 (now down to 2) Bandit Riders to run rough shod over a bigger and in some ways more advanced CIV (China) than mine.

I've been trashing his improvements, and he only archer bombards the riders, unless they are severly weakened. I've yet to see him build spearmen, horseman, or elephant riders to counter. *It might be too late to build the elphant riders as I've destroyed that improvement, but he could/should have earlier and for all I know might still be able to via subdued elphant converted to herds.

 

[sp00n]

You're right that a bugged save on the resources probably wouldn't help, since you really need to catch the turn they disappear in, so if this reproduces that I'll look into it also.

I believe I understand now what happened.
I stole the Industrialism tech in the next round, which obsoletes both the Glassmith and the Furniture Workshop. Hence, it also makes it impossible to build the Neuschwanstein world wonder on your own, although the building itself says it doesn't obsolete until Megastructure Engineering.
You are still able to build it though, but you'll have to import Furnitures and Glasswares to do so (or maybe upgrade those buildings, but I don't know that out of my head).
To me that seems like a design mistake.

 

[Raven Destroyer]

I think one of the biggest flaws of the AI is there lack of seige units.

idk but in one game the pain in my rear was the Excessive (And i really mean Excessive) use of Cannon's that really wasn't funny they where like Roflstomp the only reason i had survivors was due to the fact i had more unit's then they could kill

 

[ls612]

idk but in one game the pain in my rear was the Excessive (And i really mean Excessive) use of Cannon's that really wasn't funny they where like Roflstomp the only reason i had survivors was due to the fact i had more unit's then they could kill

I've found that the AI acutally uses about the right amount of siege weaponry. They are at least able to knock down my defenses in a couple turns, which is what I expect from my own stacks FWIW.

 

[Koshling]

I've found that the AI acutally uses about the right amount of siege weaponry. They are at least able to knock down my defenses in a couple turns, which is what I expect from my own stacks FWIW.

Sgtslick means bombarding UNITS before attacking, not cities I think...

 

[Sgtslick]

Yes bombarding units or even just attacking unit stacks (suiciding). Bombarding cities is about all I see AI do with seige. I usually turn on opportunity fire so that AI make better use of there seige coz often they'll just do nothing if u are attacking them. Ideally they should attack stacks with seige to do collateral damage to help bring them down more efficiently. Even attacking cities with seige units I can't remember ever seeing, they bombard defenses sure, but attacking with like 6 catapults for example even though you might lose them all, allows you to win everything thereafter. Your troops then all gain nice experience and the catapults or whatever did there job. Also with the seige workshop type buildings - ai should have cities just dedicated to pumping out seige, this would help them tremendously in war imo.

 

[strategyonly]

Here is a Barbarian stack coming into my area 2 turns before they can reach my city, with siege weapons etc, dont know if they will avert or not?? S&D is ON. SVN 4659. No viewports.

 

[Smikis]

I had half nations declare wars on me, without ever attacking to the point where i thought either svn is broken now, my game bugged out or ai is just broken on marathon speed, even ai that borders me never attacked apart guard dogs or hunters snatching workers..

 

[strategyonly]

I had half nations declare wars on me, without ever attacking to the point where i thought either svn is broken now, my game bugged out or ai is just broken on marathon speed, even ai that borders me never attacked apart guard dogs or hunters snatching workers..

Look at 1st post, need a savedgame, thx.