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AI+ v13.1

Game 3: this time same as 1 and 2, but with original AI+ v6

I won in turn 70

Rome DoW on Scythia in turn 48

BC 280 France is in medieval age

turn 70, I win:

buildings: Scythia 7, Rome 6, France 3, me 5

cities: Scythia 4, France 4, Rome 3, me 2

districts: AI near zero: Rome 1, Scythia 0, France 0, me 1

Great People: AI: zero (me 1)

religions: AI zero

OK, I guess turn 70 is too early for things, (quick speed), but still...
Hey yes, I noticed it too, before and after I've made my own changes to AI+ ...99% of AI land is either farm or improvements, it's a carpet of farms, I would make screenshots but I bet ppl already did that.
Rarely I see a city with 1 or max 2 districts, extremely rare, one with 3 districts. That is on marathon play, turn 500 emperor diff where I modded 50% increased production/food bonus from buildings/quarries/bonus resources and lowered district cost, specifically hoping to see AI build more districts, early on, having bigger city sizes. Didn't happen. Without the mod, they built alot more districts . Now I can make screenshot of London size 22, turn 500, there's not one single district, it's all farms and whatever bonus/luxury he had to improve.

Is it because AI over-improves now so fast and then he doesn't build over farms later on ?
I just notice, 3 games I'm in right now, all marathon speed, the AI tends to fill asap all his city tiles with farms/res improvement/unique improvements (ghilgames 20 ziggurates is fun to watch)..like double the number of citizens he could use, it doesn't matter and later on it doesn't prioritize districts that much to replace farms with...or wonders.
 
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Hi everyone. I have been playing around with different things, and may have found a simple solution to the settler spam problem.
What I did was add a line to the last section of the units.txt making the palace a pre-requisite building for producing settlers.
I haven't played enough yet on my own to really say how good of a solution it is, but if any of you want to test this out as well, I feel that it would be a good way of addressing the problem, at least in the short-run.
 
So I'm back with maybe the ultimate update from this marathon game with AI+ V6 Turn 750+
(I've made several changes to the AI+ files . Lowered alot safety values, increased alot flavors for districts ,lowered settling flavors, basically lots of changes to the flavor values to make AI much more aggresive yet not suicidal and build alot more districts. Goal which I think I've achieved,so far. I don't know if the game loads all changes to the mod, everytime I reload it and delete cache but it seems it takes into account alot of them anyway).

The results are quite nice. I'm maybe 40 turns away from a cultural victory because China is a pain in the ass and just announced "domination victory" a turn after researching nuclear program, which I hadn't yet..so I decided to DOW China...which turned out to be much tougher than I expected. He has like 10+ at crew armies which he uses almost intelligently I could say, not too suicidal, not too aggresive. In 10 turns after I've started sieging his capital I haven't made progress at all...he's quite powerful.

The only 2 major issues is that the AI tends to still walk around with 10 settlers at any time, despite the map being fully settled 300 turns earlier ( tested, fought a few small AI's to kill all their settlers then peaced out, after 30 or so turns, they build them back but there's no spot on the map where you could build another city).
The second is the AI is crazy with military, prolly half of their empire tiles are occupied with military units so when war breaks out, they are not so efficient at siegeing..but they do fight,sometimes go suicidal on your ass, instead of backing off , now. (I've had Norway throw all his melee at me, and showering with arrows despite he was doing 2-3 damage to my calvary armies, which I liked since it's not like he could have done anything else, before being eliminated.

Anyway here screenshots, you can see that after my changes to district flavors, around turn 400,earlier posted in this thread, some of the AI went quite crazy with districts which I found amazing.A few cities I';ve conquered had 4 and 5 districts.
I think the mod does some things very good, as in making the AI more militaristic and able to fight...but it needs lots more tweaking before making it halfway through decent...and DEFINITELY less settlers.

EDIT: one fascinating thing I've forgot to add or screenshot is that Russia was close to a religious victory, despite having 5 cities out of which 3 barely developped. I've had to eliminate him when he got to 60 converted cities and sent a very annoying swarm of religious units on my continent where Japan had already converted everything but was then failing to defend it's own religion.
 

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So I'm back with maybe the ultimate update from this marathon game with AI+ V6 Turn 750+

Great news Terranu1. I'd be interested in checking out your mod. Have you tried incorporating WesW's suggestion above your post?
 
Great news Terranu1. I'd be interested in checking out your mod. Have you tried incorporating WesW's suggestion above your post?
Well here it is, for research purposes maybe.
Bare in mind, I only play marathon games so I tweaked all the buildings&resources to give out from 50-100% more production&food whilst also making tech and civics2.5x more expensive. Which leads to much faster city building and eras last much much longer, I enjoy seeing long wars through each era and more development from that era and not just rushing from clasical to medieval in 30 turns and I always tweak the game xmls for that speed only.To where it takes 5-20 turns to build a unit/army but also a tech might take minimum 10 to 30, and buildings are on par with units or faster, its much better balanced, in my opinion. That might affect alot the AI behavior, dont know how much and how since I've never played faster speeds, epic once on civ V.

But I could never stand the horrid imbalance of the core game where you would tech twice as fast than building a market lets say or a spearman. That is so dumb.
 

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Another major AI behavior that needs to be fixed is their peace deal making. Currently they put up way too easily. In my last game I was at war with Germany and I took one tiny city of his. He immediately offered peace and although had an even higher military power than me, agreed to cede that city PLUS an additional decent city of his remaining 6. This is on Deity. That felt felt so game breaking and exploitative that I quit and went back to Civ 5..
 
Hi everyone. I have been playing around with different things, and may have found a simple solution to the settler spam problem.
What I did was add a line to the last section of the units.txt making the palace a pre-requisite building for producing settlers.
I haven't played enough yet on my own to really say how good of a solution it is, but if any of you want to test this out as well, I feel that it would be a good way of addressing the problem, at least in the short-run.
Would this mean you can only build settlers in your capital city?
 
Hey all.
Still working on improvements meanwhile. Hoping to get a patch in today, that should make some of the issues surrounding empire-building a little better (mostly district and faith related).

One kind of annoying problem that seems to come up in a lot of feedback is the settler spam. The problem here appears to mostly be that it's very game-speed dependent. I've balanced the mod around quick-speed, as that's what I usually play on and what is easiest to test. But there are some aspects that don't scale well to the slower speeds. The settler one is most notable. This is because there is a hard limit based on settler production programmed in that is turn based, which does not scale properly according to game speeds. This means that the settler production rate is right now based on what is an appropriate turn amount for quick, which may pass on standard but is not appropriate for epic/marathon.
The district building rate is another, which gets worse on slower speeds, because AIs dont (or are extremely hesitant to) replace improvements with districts. And on slower speeds, AIs will have had more of an opportunity to spam their terrain full with improvements before they get the techs required.

I'm wondering what the best way to solve this is and was wondering if you guys had any advice. I could try balancing for standard instead, which should make epic a little more passable but would make quick worse. I could make multiple mods for each gamespeed, and test and balance them independently, but that would take an insane amount of extra time, especially since I'm also already doing individual balancing for all the difficulty levels from prince-deity. I could also just give instructions to change a few of the most essential variables, but that would require people having to mess with their files. Or maybe I should just keep it as is but warn that it's optimized for quick.
Any thoughts?
 
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In regards to the settler issue. We limited this by changing a few values related to the Settler and Growth:
Code:
UPDATE Units SET COST ='90' WHERE UnitType ='UNIT_SETTLER';
UPDATE Units SET PopulationCost ='2' WHERE UnitType='UNIT_SETTLER';
UPDATE Units SET PrereqPopulation ='4' WHERE UnitType='UNIT_SETTLER';
UPDATE GlobalParameters SET Value ='2' WHERE Name ='CITY_GROWTH_EXPONENT';
UPDATE GlobalParameters SET Value ='4' WHERE Name ='CITY_GROWTH_MULTIPLIER';
UPDATE GlobalParameters SET Value ='25' WHERE Name ='CITY_GROWTH_THRESHOLD';
UPDATE GlobalParameters SET Value ='3' WHERE Name ='CITY_FOOD_CONSUMPTION_PER_POPULATION';
You could add a configuration sql file that loads after your xml's, maybe even give it some suggested values for the other game speeds. I myself has no issues about changing values, although your xmls are rather large, hense the suggestion about a configuration sql.
 
I'm wondering what the best way to solve this is and was wondering if you guys had any advice. I could try balancing for standard instead, which should make epic a little more passable but would make quick worse. I could make multiple mods for each gamespeed, and test and balance them independently, but that would take an insane amount of extra time, especially since I'm also already doing individual balancing for all the difficulty levels from prince-deity. I could also just give instructions to change a few of the most essential variables, but that would require people having to mess with their files. Or maybe I should just keep it as is but warn that it's optimized for quick.
Any thoughts?

I vote for balancing for standard speed since that'd be what most folks play on.
 
Hey all.
Still working on improvements meanwhile. Hoping to get a patch in today, that should make some of the issues surrounding empire-building a little better (mostly district and faith related).

One kind of annoying problem that seems to come up in a lot of feedback is the settler spam. The problem here appears to mostly be that it's very game-speed dependent. I've balanced the mod around quick-speed, as that's what I usually play on and what is easiest to test. But there are some aspects that don't scale well to the slower speeds. The settler one is most notable. This is because there is a hard limit based on settler production programmed in that is turn based, which does not scale properly according to game speeds. This means that the settler production rate is right now based on what is an appropriate turn amount for quick, which may pass on standard but is not appropriate for epic/marathon.
The district building rate is another, which gets worse on slower speeds, because AIs dont (or are extremely hesitant to) replace improvements with districts. And on slower speeds, AIs will have had more of an opportunity to spam their terrain full with improvements before they get the techs required.

I'm wondering what the best way to solve this is and was wondering if you guys had any advice. I could try balancing for standard instead, which should make epic a little more passable but would make quick worse. I could make multiple mods for each gamespeed, and test and balance them independently, but that would take an insane amount of extra time, especially since I'm also already doing individual balancing for all the difficulty levels from prince-deity. I could also just give instructions to change a few of the most essential variables, but that would require people having to mess with their files. Or maybe I should just keep it as is but warn that it's optimized for quick.
Any thoughts?
I think I solved the districts problem, if you look at the changes I made to flavors and difference in screenshots between turn 400 where most AI's hardly built more than 2 districts then about 100 turns later, as I played they suddenly started building lots of them,replacing farms and cities with 4 and 5 districts became common.
I only play marathon and yea, the settler spam is very annoying mostly because it handicaps the AI, keeps lowering their city pop for nothing.
What do you mean, the AI doesn't check for valid settling spots, he's just programmed to built a settler every few turns ? that's kinda...dumb.
 
Looks like most are in favor for the standard speed as the base. I'll try to adjust for that then and hope that makes it a little better on the slower speeds too.

I think I solved the districts problem, if you look at the changes I made to flavors and difference in screenshots between turn 400 where most AI's hardly built more than 2 districts then about 100 turns later, as I played they suddenly started building lots of them,replacing farms and cities with 4 and 5 districts became common.
I only play marathon and yea, the settler spam is very annoying mostly because it handicaps the AI, keeps lowering their city pop for nothing.
What do you mean, the AI doesn't check for valid settling spots, he's just programmed to built a settler every few turns ? that's kinda...dumb.

Well, it's not really programmed to build one very few turns. But the system that determines whether a spot is valid, takes a static amount of turns into consideration as one of its most important factors. Basically, this amount of turns is fed into some formula that also takes the valuation of a settle spot into account, and based on that determines whether it wants to build a settler. It just so happens that this static turn amount appears to be one of the most important factor determining how many settlers get produced per turn, and yeah it doesn't scale with gamespeed.
The problems with the AI suddenly ending up with 7 settlers appear to arrive because for some reason it can't get its settlers to whatever spot it sees (barbs/enemies seems the most common reason), and it then for some reason doesn't realize it already had settlers ready. Since this player never ends up settling that spot, the spot continues to be free, so it keeps building new settlers.
It is indeed incredibly dumb.

Tried to look through your altered files for the districts changes you made, but wasn't sure if I saw all of them. It seemed you buffed the flavors for district in renaissance and modern, which coincidentally is a change I've made for v7 too. So v7 should hopefully be fine for you too even on slower speeds and with other mods active.
 
Siesta Guru updated AI+ with a new update entry:

v7

- Split faith and great prophet desires in three categories. Having a religion, being able to get a religion, and not being able to get a religion. The desire for it while in a religion is comparable to the base game, while the desire without a religion is significantly lower.
- Additionally altered faith desires on a per-leader basis
- Improved desire for districts back up to normal levels
- City States can now build districts other than their respective type
- Minor improvements to settler...

Read the rest of this update entry...
 
So, I hope that solves some of the issues you guys have been having!

Unfortunately I couldn't get some of the war changes I was planning in, it's a very lengthy and annoying process to get changes to even do anything, let alone have them actually be better. It's a complete trial & error thing atm, where each trial takes 30 minutes, with almost no feedback on what is actually going wrong if it doesn't work.
 
Siesta, what can we "hope" out of v7? What is to expect? What did you see in your tests while in the making of v7?
 
Siesta, what can we "hope" out of v7? What is to expect? What did you see in your tests while in the making of v7?

So in terms of districts it definitely feels way better, most cities end up making districts up to their limit or close to it. Most cities feel like they have appropriate sizes and improvements. They're still not as good as human cities, since they don't do well with adjacency bonuses, and underuse/badly use internal trade routes. They're way better than vanilla cities though.

In terms of religion, the AIs will pick up religions until the limit is reached, and then some will be very dedicated to their religion and some a little less. There's a couple of civs which basically try to rush their religions, building holy sites or stonehenge asap, and then there's some which take it a little easier and just get a holy site or two.
In terms of settler escorts, I'd say about 75% have an escort now in formation with it. Of the remainder, there'll usually be at least one unit nearby. I haven't seen a single settler be captured by barbarians in my last 5 test games (in observer mode), but they're still very vulnerable to players that go in for the surprise war to nab a citizens.

Settlers mostly run straight to their destination and settle. But there still are some that do the walking back and forth thing, maybe about 15% of settlers. The main two causes are barbs and others having settled before them. It tends towards only a single civ a game struggling with it, while all others do fine. I haven't personally seen any civ end up with more than 2 settlers simultaneously in the last few test games. But I expect that that issue isn't completely gone either.

City states build districts of all the relevant types now (campus, industrial, theatre, campus, harbor), but still prefer their 'natural type', science city states prioritize campuses etc.

War wise, AI civs usually don't really get that far against other civs but sometimes do make gains. City states are easily taken, but most AI vs AI wars end up in just a single city, or no cities whatsoever taken. War declarations are mostly appropriate, but they lack the ability to push through the unit walls. In what is kind of counter intuitive, some of the best conquerors I've seen were on lower difficulty levels, with the rare civ (mostly Rome) ends up taking over 1 or 2 other civs completely.
Against humans, they can be a little scary because peace orientated humans tend to have far less troops. But they're still easily outfought using simple tricks that allow you to hold them off long enough to break them. They still are only really properly scary at the very early game, or if you never build any troops. Sometimes a civ with mounted units can still do some harm, as can those that rush down the field cannon line. Their individual unit control is not the worst, but they do really badly at having coordinated goals (missing opportunities to take a city in a turn).
Defensive wise, they're still horrible. The main problem is still that they're unwilling to bring their units towards battle. Often because they're planning to attack some city while being attacked themselves. They build walls way too late because they all avoid masonry now for some reason. At least they sometimes get archers now.

The individualization efforts are coming along nicely. It does feel like the civs are much more flavorful along lines you would mostly expect. France will be busy being cultured and refined, Rome is expansive and aggressive, Germany becomes a science and production monster, Gandhi peacefully spams his religion, Qin protects himself while building wonders, etc.

Peace offers and other trades are still going to be terrible, they're still weirdly eager to go to peace and to give half their stuff away. Sadly little I can do here.
 
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