Air Units

That looks pretty good, although some of the promotions reduce strength to grant extra range. That doesn't seem fair.

WarKirby
 
WarKirby said:
That looks pretty good, although some of the promotions reduce strength to grant extra range. That doesn't seem fair.

WarKirby
Click to expand...


That's true to aircraft though. In WW2, escort aircraft were designed significantly different than interceptors or regular fighters. They stripped out anything extra to add fuel capacity... long range escorts were clunky, maneuvered poorly and weren't well equipped... but they got the job done because they could reach where no other aircraft could go.
 
WarKirby said:
That looks pretty good, although some of the promotions reduce strength to grant extra range. That doesn't seem fair.

WarKirby
Click to expand...

i never said i agreed with the promotions:D

i was just saying this should be implemented somehow in the warlords version. then the particular promotions can be decided later.:goodjob:
 
carnivore said:
waht about the paratroopers ?

i reallllllllly liked them in civ 3
Click to expand...
Yeah I really miss being able to drop a lightly armed force behind enemy lines to plunder and pillage....wait a minute is that an Armored Division heading our way...quick everybody throw your hands up in the air and surrender. :p
 
The vanilla system doesn't take the attacker's intercept chance into account for trying to push an air fight to happen.

When an air fight does happen in vanilla, the defender is about 5 times more likely to win than the attacker is. (For jet vs jet, in vanilla the defender wins approximately 70% of the time and the attacker wins exactly 14% of the time.) In MY mod, if there's a biplane defending (50%) and you send a modern fighter in (90%), your fighter uses its intercept to successfully pick a fight 90% of the time (and it will usually win too). This clears out a pesky defender that still had a 50% chance of damaging or killing any non-stealthy bombers you wanted to send in (for example I have a unit called the heavy bomber, uses Snafu's B52, much stronger than the B2 but has no stealth). The changes basically enable an "air superiority pseudo-mission mechanic" that allows you to offensively clear defending fighters if you want, by going in with fighters under the pretense of bombing/striking. This wasn't practical in vanilla unless you had 5 times more planes than your opponent. I would've preferred to create a whole new air mission for it (Civ3 had a seperate air superiority mission), but that would require changing the AI code to actually use it (which I don't know how to do yet). This system, with fighters given Attack_AIs in XML, has a solid chance of fooling the AI into using the new mechanic accidentally but effectively, without changing the AI code.

Finally, the lethality (chance an intercept will be fatal to the aircraft being intercepted), was strictly based on the intercept chance of the intercepting unit in vanilla. It was literally converting a jet fighter's 70% into something like: "roll a random between 0 and (4 * 70) = 280, that's the percent damage, if it's over 100 it's fatal". I've seperated the lethality random bound out so it can be set seperately. This allows you to, for example, set up a battleship to have a very low intercept chance via its big guns (say 5% or 10%), but for it to be highly fatal if it hits. (In vanilla, low intercept chance means low damage dealt.)

At the *moment* it uses a bunch of if-else statements in the C code to map specific intercepts (and thus specific units) to specific lethalities, but it's probably better to make a new XML tag for this (for a couple reasons). I'll do so when I have time.
Click to expand...

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=175766


This is interesting. I think this should be included so that air units can actually pick fights, Bi-planes will no longer be quite so successful against modern air units.

Maybe you guys Mexico and Houman could incorporate this into the mod?:please:
 
What is the matter with vanilla; don't you get that real special feeling in your heart when a bi-plane takes out your stealth bomber? :rolleyes: LOL!
 
Had a couple of comments/questions about these units...


1. Chinook - Why can't Commando's or Great Leaders get on board? Is this by design? I was kind of hoping Great Leaders could ride in Helicopters and Armored Cars, seems like that is where they spend most of their time in real life anyways.. Not a big deal, just was curious if this was intended.

2. Strike Fighter - This was one that really bugged me. Strike Fighter comes after you can build Zeppelins, Biplanes, Regular Fighters and Bombers. But as an upgrade, you can upgrade Zeppelins to Strike fighters, or Bombers to Strike Fighters, but not regular Fighters or Biplanes.

This is a problem, as once the Strike Fighters is available, the Bomber is unavailable. And this is a problem, because for 4 extra HP, I lose the ability to Bomb multiple units with my Bomber, as the Strike Fighter only hits 1 unit at a time. Finally I caught on that it wasn't worth "upgrading" my Bombers, as they were much more effective than the Strike Fighter, I only wish I still had the ability to make them, as I had to wait for Composities to get the Stealth to get new Bombers.

Also, the Strike Fighter has no "Intercept" button, I don't know if it intercepts automatically, but if it can't bomb multiple units, and it only has a few more HP and can't intercept, it's not really worth building or upgrading to.



Also as a side note on Chinooks, they are so good, with the ability to carry 8 units, and the Heavier Chinooks carrying Tanks, that a force of 2-3 Reg. Chinooks and 3-5 Heavy Chinooks is a devestating combo that can take out pretty much any city in a pretty wide area in just a couple of turns. Possibly, the range on the Choppers should be reduced slightly to make them a little less powerful in this regard?


Anyways, as I said before, great job with everything, just my notes as I went along...

More thoughts will be coming about Techs,Diplomacy and Religion...
 
First. Not being able to carry commandos/marines/great people. I think this is a bug. I really hope so.

I've never reached the modern era, so can't comment on the strike fighter.

Carrying 8 ground units seems a bit ridiculous. A unit represents a whole squad of soldiers, no? Maybe it should be limited to a cargo of 2, rather than slowing down.
 
JahtheIII said:
2. Strike Fighter - This was one that really bugged me. Strike Fighter comes after you can build Zeppelins, Biplanes, Regular Fighters and Bombers. But as an upgrade, you can upgrade Zeppelins to Strike fighters, or Bombers to Strike Fighters, but not regular Fighters or Biplanes.

This is a problem, as once the Strike Fighters is available, the Bomber is unavailable. And this is a problem, because for 4 extra HP, I lose the ability to Bomb multiple units with my Bomber, as the Strike Fighter only hits 1 unit at a time. Finally I caught on that it wasn't worth "upgrading" my Bombers, as they were much more effective than the Strike Fighter, I only wish I still had the ability to make them, as I had to wait for Composities to get the Stealth to get new Bombers.

Also, the Strike Fighter has no "Intercept" button, I don't know if it intercepts automatically, but if it can't bomb multiple units, and it only has a few more HP and can't intercept, it's not really worth building or upgrading to.
Click to expand...

(All info is based on TR beta2 for warlords)
so what about this:
bombers can upgrade to Stirke Fighters AND/OR Stealth bombers, so player can build bombers until both types is avaliable - similar like archer go to longarchers and/or crosbowmans
(or maybe with jet fighter there will be new jet bomber -> this unit can upgrade in future)
also strike figters will gain ability to make 2 missions per turn

and another question:
i want add some new unique (ethnicaly diverse) units to game

here is list of affected units (some of them is already implemented, here is just for info) - i want know your opinion about new units (bold font)

Fighter:
Bf109 (German) - already implemented
Zero (japan) - already implemented
P51 (american) - implemented in next WL beta
Mig-3 (russia) - only this model is avaliable
hawker hurricane (england) - because spitfire is used as default fighter

Bomber:
He111 (German) - i know that there is also Ju-87 model, but HE have better quality, animation etc..
IL-2 (Russia)

Jet Fighter:
F-15 (american) - already implemented
Mirrage 2000 (France) - already implemented
MIG-21 (Russia/China) - ??? - see note below

Strike Fighter:
F/A-18 (american)
Su-37 (russia) - ??? - see note below
Harrier (england)

Stealth Bomber:
TU-160 (russia)

Note:
because there is too much avaliable russians models, i picked these, which in my opinion is typical unit for selected role - but if you have good arguments for other types....
here is list of avalaible models:
Mig-21
Mig-23
Mig-25
Mig-29
Su-25
Su-27
Su-33
Su-35
Su-37
Su-47

Another note: if there will be net Jet Bomber type, i think that this will be represented not as typical bomber (like B-52), but closer to strike fighter - i thought about A-10/Su-25 models for this role - what you think?
 
Mexico,

Don't forget to add this (very good) jet fighter. Only Sweden (so Viking in TR warlords) use these aircraft.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=187010

About Russia, their most powerful jet fighter are Mig-29 or Su-27. Mig-21 were mainly sold to their former allies (East Germany, Poland, Cuba, Vietnam, etc). Meanwhile, the most build aircraft of Communist Russia was the Mig-23, a poor copy of the US F-14.

About Japan. Today, Japan is one of the four only countries of the world that use F-15 A as main Interceptor/Jet Fighter. Why not giving Japan a (lowest?) version of the F-15 ? Remember that USA use F-15 E, if i'm right.

About Mig-21. This plane was/is sold to most of the minor countries of the world. Such as Yemen, countries of Central America, many African countries,etc. Why not giving Mig-21 to civs as Zulu, Inca, Aztec ?

About Mig-29. This plane was sold to India before the Fall of USSR and then to China after the Fall of USSR. Meanwhile, China still don't have many. On the other hand, India main Interceptor Force use mainly this very good Jet fighter. Adding it to India could be good IMO.

Note that many Arabian countries and Muslims countries closed to the Arabian "world" are using Aircrafts from USA (Saudia Arabia, Koweit, Egypt, Barhein, Pakistan for examples) France (Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Oman, Irak for examples) , Great Britain (Oman, Saudia Arabia for examples) and Russia (Syria, Egypt, Somalia, Yemen, Irak). (in order) I give the best version of some aircraft sold to these countries: F-16, Mirage-2000, Mig-23, Tornado.

The Frog.
 
Hian the Frog said:
Mexico,

Don't forget to add this (very good) jet fighter. Only Sweden (so Viking in TR warlords) use these aircraft.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=187010

About Russia, their most powerful jet fighter are Mig-29 or Su-27. Mig-21 were mainly sold to their former allies (East Germany, Poland, Cuba, Vietnam, etc). Meanwhile, the most build aircraft of Communist Russia was the Mig-23, a poor copy of the US F-14.

About Japan. Today, Japan is one of the four only countries of the world that use F-15 A as main Interceptor/Jet Fighter. Why not giving Japan a (lowest?) version of the F-15 ? Remember that USA use F-15 E, if i'm right.

About Mig-21. This plane was/is sold to most of the minor countries of the world. Such as Yemen, countries of Central America, many African countries,etc. Why not giving Mig-21 to civs as Zulu, Inca, Aztec ?

About Mig-29. This plane was sold to India before the Fall of USSR and then to China after the Fall of USSR. Meanwhile, China still don't have many. On the other hand, India main Interceptor Force use mainly this very good Jet fighter. Adding it to India could be good IMO.

Note that many Arabian countries and Muslims countries closed to the Arabian "world" are using Aircrafts from USA (Saudia Arabia, Koweit, Egypt, Barhein, Pakistan for examples) France (Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Oman, Irak for examples) , Great Britain (Oman, Saudia Arabia for examples) and Russia (Syria, Egypt, Somalia, Yemen, Irak). (in order) I give the best version of some aircraft sold to these countries: F-16, Mirage-2000, Mig-23, Tornado.

The Frog.
Click to expand...
Good Points Froggie. I would prefer one of the latest Sukhois - Su-27 for the Russians. I like the Heraldic Shield icon underneath your tag. :cool: Is that from your former tank regiment/brigade? :) Good work Mexico!
 
i dont care, i never actually make it to the modern world :lol:
Eighther it was CTD or turns 20 min each. :lol:

I say that making the mod runs faster should be priority,a s differance betwean Warlords and WTR is like 3 or 4 times. Know this IS hard to do.

PS: Im in terrific mood after Gran Derby !!!
 
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