well i am just saying from my experience from a shadow game i know that with this start he could have the full continent by himself allready. Monarchy might be ok since he need happiness anyways but metalcasting before construction severly hampers how fast he can get the next war going.
ALC Game 16: Persia/Cyrus
- Thread starter Sisiutil
- Start date
I find it interesting that the iron deal with Isabella, a vital part of the war vs. HC/Izzy deal has yet to be mentioned. Right now, you are sending iron over to her, which is undoubtedly fueling her forces against Huayna. Furthermore, a quick look through her lands reveals that she only has a copper right on her border with HC, which we can assume will be pillaged or in some way disrupted.
If you declare on Izzy, she will lose the iron, and also being (most likely) without copper, you are pretty much signing her death warrant. BUT, who will reap the rewards? Not you. HC will take everything and put himself in a great position, especially by only having one foreign border (which is with you).
If you declare on HC, the iron deal will be cancelled because you can't have any trade routes through his land. This one is a bit more tricky though, because we can once again assume that Izzy will be on the losing end. However, HC will be diverting half of his forces to the Western front with Izzy, so with a decent army you should be able to do him some damage. It might also be beneficial that Izzy not be too successful against him for fear that he might vassalize to her or she would just become more powerful with the land she might take.
The last option is to do nothing. It's hard to be neutral because we can assume (especially if you plan on adopting Hinduism as you or someone else mentioned) that one of them will ask you to declare or at least HC will ask that you cancel deals with Izzy. Then you arrive at one of the positions above and will have to make a difficult decision.
I am not taking a side here because I have not followed the game very well and am not fully knowledgable of the situation, however I just wanted to point this whole thing out. Good luck in the rounds to come.
If you declare on Izzy, she will lose the iron, and also being (most likely) without copper, you are pretty much signing her death warrant. BUT, who will reap the rewards? Not you. HC will take everything and put himself in a great position, especially by only having one foreign border (which is with you).
If you declare on HC, the iron deal will be cancelled because you can't have any trade routes through his land. This one is a bit more tricky though, because we can once again assume that Izzy will be on the losing end. However, HC will be diverting half of his forces to the Western front with Izzy, so with a decent army you should be able to do him some damage. It might also be beneficial that Izzy not be too successful against him for fear that he might vassalize to her or she would just become more powerful with the land she might take.
The last option is to do nothing. It's hard to be neutral because we can assume (especially if you plan on adopting Hinduism as you or someone else mentioned) that one of them will ask you to declare or at least HC will ask that you cancel deals with Izzy. Then you arrive at one of the positions above and will have to make a difficult decision.
I am not taking a side here because I have not followed the game very well and am not fully knowledgable of the situation, however I just wanted to point this whole thing out. Good luck in the rounds to come.
Syndrome Zed
Wanna see my quad laser?
When did William Shatner start playing Civ?
OK, seriously though, Sisi, I like Cabert's idea of forges, then Construction cats or at least elephants if you feel that time is critical. But despite your good relations with Huayna, I'd declare on him next, especially if he hasn't been long from the end of the war with Issy. As others have pointed out in the past, and you mentioned recently, Huayna is a "monster". If you have the opportunity to actually take him down a notch or two, I would use it. Genghis, from a strategic standpoint, will not get a lot stronger as the game progresses, but HC will. So don't wait until you have a much more powerful HC to have to deal with, especially if he manages to take a Spanish city or two. Deal with him first - you can mop up the Khan later on.
Charou
Warlord
Good point here, that fate of Spain depends very much on this deal.
I agree to fact that you have to take a side in this war.
Goddam it, it's your continent that is at stake here.
A war with GK on your own can be delayed, requires a neutral attitde towards the other two and doesn't make any war buddies relationship bonus.
Strike HC.
It's all about timing. IMO, you should wait til the last moment, let
HC get the upper ground and declare before it's too late.
She will be mildly crippled and so will get the smallest share of the cake.
maybe gift her a couple of units ( not easy too do cuz of the distance but why not ?), if things are going bad for her, so she won't vassalize or sign peace treaty.
Although I assume here that HC is stronger (as often ), I don't remember Sis showing the power graph.
I have a question right here. How do Izzy and HC like Gengis ?
Who might call him for support ?
Charou
Warlord
Sisiutil
All Leader Challenger
TRJS
Warlord
Add another vote for jumping in the war with Izzy against HC. Not right away mind you but at a point when you feel he is starting to commit large numbers of troops westward.
With that in mind you will need to start churning out some troops and consider contruction as a research need.
With that in mind you will need to start churning out some troops and consider contruction as a research need.
very good trade this round. your power rating isn't that bad once u finish construction and get catapults and elephants. it's great success once u get your enonomy back in shape after your first early expansion (7-8 cities).
i had a try using cyrus last night in my game. i use GG all for the warlord units. i have some warriors for garrison. so i attached GG to it and took the advantage of free upgrading. all warlord units have CR3 promotion and leadership , 30% withdraw chance, and +1 movement thanks to chm trait. i have GG pop up like crazy and save upgrade money a lot.
comparing to the +2 experience in one city, warlord units are super units that will make more GG later. u get at leat 4 xp point to the pool in a combat.
by the way, i have 8 warlords units in that game...
i had a try using cyrus last night in my game. i use GG all for the warlord units. i have some warriors for garrison. so i attached GG to it and took the advantage of free upgrading. all warlord units have CR3 promotion and leadership , 30% withdraw chance, and +1 movement thanks to chm trait. i have GG pop up like crazy and save upgrade money a lot.
comparing to the +2 experience in one city, warlord units are super units that will make more GG later. u get at leat 4 xp point to the pool in a combat.
by the way, i have 8 warlords units in that game...
Rancid Sushi
Last year's catch
Blindsiding HC is a gamble. You could do it now and have great success if his troops are indeed focused on Isabella's territory, if not your Immortals will be sent home in horse-shaped coffins. Personally I wouldn't wait for catapults. Even if you can't take any cities, your troops are mobile enough to pillage his economy into the ground.
patagonia
Emperor
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2006
- Messages
- 1,025
What part of the sentence "Huayna has war elephants" makes the advocates of an early war think it's a good idea to send the Immortals to their doom?
Rancid Sushi
Last year's catch
Ah, I forgot HC has elephants. Right then, go for the Khandom as I originally suggested.
Joxer
Warlord
This situation seems oddly familiar.
Go to war on the western front while a tentative peace remains on the eastern front.
The country is just on the tip of my tongue. . .
OH YEAH! Germany, that did not work out so well for them.
Kill the Mongols, let Izzy and HC beat themselves up. Keep fueling Izzy's war machine until HC demands you stop. Doubtful he has the stomach to finish her off. Then you have a guaranteed ally when you move your veteran forces from Mongolia to the Incan border.
Besides, the Spanish harlot is a much more attactive ally than GK, his lice/fleas and all.
Go to war on the western front while a tentative peace remains on the eastern front.
The country is just on the tip of my tongue. . .
OH YEAH! Germany, that did not work out so well for them.
Kill the Mongols, let Izzy and HC beat themselves up. Keep fueling Izzy's war machine until HC demands you stop. Doubtful he has the stomach to finish her off. Then you have a guaranteed ally when you move your veteran forces from Mongolia to the Incan border.
Besides, the Spanish harlot is a much more attactive ally than GK, his lice/fleas and all.
r_rolo1
King of myself
@ Joxer
The problem with taking GK now and go after HC somwhere in a not so far future is that GK is not a big threat to the big finale ( because he is a stupid warmonger that doesn't care about anything except his beloved military), while HC is a ever increasing nuisance ( do I need to say why? ). Izzy hasn't a chance alone against HC and if whe finish GK, HC will finish/vassalize Izzy. Status point there? You'll face a financial 800 lb gorilla that won't tech trade with you until the other continent beats at your door. Not a good scenario, me thinks.
My first idea ( don't know if it is feasible right now ) would be bribing GK to war with HC. Would empty GK military ( and give him other target than the S man ), would put HC in double front war and you would be in the middle teching to cats
. If this is not feasible, at least give Izzy some units, for a better hope of a non vassalizing Izzy ( we need her alive ... for now 
). But do not let HC with free hands.
The problem with taking GK now and go after HC somwhere in a not so far future is that GK is not a big threat to the big finale ( because he is a stupid warmonger that doesn't care about anything except his beloved military), while HC is a ever increasing nuisance ( do I need to say why? ). Izzy hasn't a chance alone against HC and if whe finish GK, HC will finish/vassalize Izzy. Status point there? You'll face a financial 800 lb gorilla that won't tech trade with you until the other continent beats at your door. Not a good scenario, me thinks.
My first idea ( don't know if it is feasible right now ) would be bribing GK to war with HC. Would empty GK military ( and give him other target than the S man ), would put HC in double front war and you would be in the middle teching to cats
. If this is not feasible, at least give Izzy some units, for a better hope of a non vassalizing Izzy ( we need her alive ... for now ). But do not let HC with free hands.Uncle Istvan
Chieftain
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2007
- Messages
- 61
@ Joxer
My first idea ( don't know if it is feasible right now ) would be bribing GK to war with HC. Would empty GK military ( and give him other target than the S man ), would put HC in double front war and you would be in the middle teching to cats
If you really wanted to be sneaky, you could bribe the Khan to attack HC, wait until his units pass through your territory into Inca, and then attack Genghis, who now has all his units fighting a war across the continent, and is being attacked by 2 technologically advanced foes. If you do this, I would cancel Open Borders with Huayna, so that he won't be able to fight the Mongols in your land, and must instead deal with their pillaging his country.
Kev
Hired Goon
Just a question, if you cancel open borders with HC via war or diplomacy, would Izzy still be able to trade with us via coastal cities? Not too sure how that works out and what techs are needed for that.
I'm NOT implying that this is a good strategy from either side, just a question.
I still think the best option is to settle the city near the elephants while teching to construction and hit Khan with eles, cats, and metal-unit support. The elephants can take the bite out of any keshiks if GK has them around, and promoted elephants can become cavalry later on.
I'm NOT implying that this is a good strategy from either side, just a question.
I still think the best option is to settle the city near the elephants while teching to construction and hit Khan with eles, cats, and metal-unit support. The elephants can take the bite out of any keshiks if GK has them around, and promoted elephants can become cavalry later on.
BlueSoxSWJ
Chieftain
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2006
- Messages
- 92
I'd have to take a good look at the save, but based on the ideas throw out so far, etc., my tentative plan would be:
Step 1. tech to cats ASAP
Step 2. bribe GK into attacking HC (in my experience, bribing the AI into attacking a country they don't border doesn't do all that much, but at least it'll keep him away from you) edit: Isabella's ok too, as long as he's at war with somebody other than you.
Step 3. Once you have an adequate military, declare on HC
Step 4. Oh darn, that means Isabella will suddenly be weakened with no source of metal?
Step 5. Take out HC, and if you have the stack to keep going, Isabella.
Step 6. ...
Step 7. Profit
Step 1. tech to cats ASAP
Step 2. bribe GK into attacking HC (in my experience, bribing the AI into attacking a country they don't border doesn't do all that much, but at least it'll keep him away from you) edit: Isabella's ok too, as long as he's at war with somebody other than you.
Step 3. Once you have an adequate military, declare on HC
Step 4. Oh darn, that means Isabella will suddenly be weakened with no source of metal?
Step 5. Take out HC, and if you have the stack to keep going, Isabella.
Step 6. ...
Step 7. Profit
commofdoom
Chieftain
I checked the save GK is open to idea of warring with Isabella and after some bribing got him okay to do so against HC. However, I couldn't bribe him into it with either. Then again this was still the same turn, maybe with much much more gold it'd be possible, though Izzy or HC will ask you to declare war sooner than later.
bribing GK to fight a phony war against HC is not a good idea, u will help GK tech up and be a real threat later. izzy is not low in terms of power and will keep HC buzy for a while, keep supplying izzy with iron until u see the war front dramatically changed (like one city fell to the other or the power graph changed to unflaver HC).
Similar threads
