ALC Game 16: Persia/Cyrus

[Kietharr]

You've opened the wound, keep digging at it. You've got armies sitting right at his core area, whip out cannons and the like and keep pressing the advantage until he manages to muster his full force against you, the second you think your new gains are at risk, try to sue for peace and catch up. I suggest getting a good pillage stack heading that way too, it's likely that you won't take cuzco before he gets his army back at you, so destroying infrastructure is a good idea. If you can surprise the city and capture it, by all means go for it.

 

[civ4legs]

At this point, I don't think that going cavs is going to be too helpful; he will already have the counter, and then you're stuck without a counter should he set his sights on cav himself. I say aim for rifling, since it's also on the path to replaceable parts, and thus railroad (which will end the game in your favour if it's not already done: you'll have your units to the frontline so much quicker)

 

[jerVL/kg]

Wow, two updates in 3 days...has the world gone topsy-turvy?

Don't accept peace yet -- keep pressing your advantage, until HC coughs up a tech or two at least. Head for Cavalry, or at least Nationalism, since you need it to draft anyway. I wouldn't worry too much about HC's rifles, the secret to beating a technologically superior foe is to overwhelm him with numbers, which you can do quite handily.

When is your next GP due? Will he lightbulb anything useful?

 

[Lance of Llanwy]

I think you can break him, and now. At least go along the south coast and clean that up. Cuzco would be a glittering prize, and you'd be in a better position to clean up Izzie or vassalize her, depending on preference. Not to mention Cuzco is a holy city and probably would be a welcome lift to the finances, and might help bring down his tech rate.

But yeah...whatever you do...take Cuzco. It's too nice a city to leave in Huayna's hands

 

[pigswill]

HC is likely to get rifles in the near future and his power will shoot up; best way to counter that is to take more of his cities. As cabert said whip them cannon. Rifles are better protection than cavalry.

 

[r_rolo1]

I have to join the chorus: keep pushing. You barely scratched the Incas territory and you haven't destroyed the the potencial menace that HC can be.
His cottages are still there and the cities he lost were unimportant. Stop now for a pause you don't need will do to you more harm than to him. Besides that, why stop when you are winning ?

 

[OTAKUjbski]

Keep pressing. Even if all you do is pillage his countryside down to the dirt, make it hurt.

Does that size 10 city in the north of the incan land have Versailles? That could be a nice target.

No. That's HC's Forbidden Palace.

But this does bring up a good point, imo.

Corihuayrachina has two things worth taking from HC: Horses and his Forbidden Palace.

It doesn't appear the culture of Vilcamba or Machu Picchu will be enough to flip the city should it be kept. Taking/razing this city will eliminate HC's only source of Horses and destroy his Forbidden Palace.

This deals a blow both to his military and to his GNP.

EDIT: After looking a bit more at the game, Cuzco is NOT the city to target!

Given HC's religion and the amount of culture in the surrounding cities, you'll only be able to keep it if you take everything in the area. Additionally, it's not as great of a city as it appears to be on the surface, imo. (Cuzco doesn't have a shrine as far as I can tell from the log .. only Isabella has them with Islam & Buddhism.)

If Cuzco falls, Machu Picchu will likely become the new capital. Not only is MP larger (with better trade routes); it has more in the surrounding tiles. Given HC's running Bureaucracy, Machu Picchu will very likely make up a decent portion of the loss when it becomes the capital.

The only thing capturing Cuzco will do for you at this point is increase your maintenance costs and put you in contention for a perma-rebelling city.

If you want to take a city worth taking, target Machu Picchu.

 

[bluedevil99]

Huyana is dead, he just doesn't know it yet. He's fighting a two front war, is landlocked by his opponents, and doesn't have a powerful navy. Looking at the maps, he also only has one source of horses, north of Corihuawhatchamacalit (stupid Incan city names), that you can easily cut off. So cavs will do him little good, and with your production advantage (which is only going to get bigger as you take cities), his rifles are less of a concern. Tech-wise, grab cavalry then beeline to Assembly Line.

Bottom line, you have an advantage now that should be exploited for as long as possible. HC is your only serious rival at this point and this is a golden opportunity to cripple him. If he gets rifles AND makes peace with Issy, then it's time to think about peace... but with any luck you'll have cannons parked in Cuzco by then.

 

[Porphyrius]

Now this rate of updates is more like it!

100% agreed


War!
If you sue for peace, Isabella will vassalize to HC. If you don't she sees your power lowering HC's and won't.
What I'd do is whip those cannons, stop research for a while and upgrade.
Next tech? who cares? just win with what you have now.
If you manage to tech to something, better target rifling because HC will have rifles that you can only counter when YOU ATTACK for now.

Couldn't agree more.
You have captured just 2 small cities, more loose ends to be neated than anything else. Dont even consider stoping your march before at least size 15 MichiuPichiu? and then only if you see any real resistance. As has been posted allready the horses cities to the north may make the most logical target after MichiuPichiu? cause his capital will likely be better defended, they are too far back iside HC teritory to make a skirmish cutting him of horses worthwile.(Perhaps a small force by sea could pillage there in sychro with war declaration? Too late now anyway...)

Anyhow, focus on the war (keep producing/upgrading units) now mid-term research priorities are less important.

I see concern in your last post. Why? Canons and grens are the perfect city attack units of the era, so go ahead and take cities. Worring you cand hold on to newly aquired cites. Cant check the save right now, but numbers are as good defence as quality. Level your research to upgrade as needed. In any case cavalry is a bit poorer defender than rifles, but it ll get to the new cities faster so ithink its a close call. You can defend well enough without either though provided you builded some pinch/garrison grens.

PS: Noticed you just needed itches for your next GG. He should speed thinks a bit. Dont worry too much about a navy military theres allways drydock...

 

[Sisiutil]

All right, I'll definitely keep the campaign going, as all of you are recommending. I was thinking it was the best option as well.

I'm leaning more towards Rifling rather than Cavalry, as they will provide good protective units that counter Cavalry (I have several Combat II/Formation Pikemen that I can upgrade to Rifles) and Replaceable Parts is a pre-requisite for Railroads.

Here's a possible battle plan to conquer the rest of the continent:

The red lines would be the path of the primary stack, the blue lines the path of a second stack I'd eventually form. There may be 1 or 2 other cities along the way that aren't visible because I haven't updated the map in a while. This plan of attack would quickly take counter-attack pressure of of my existing border cities while depriving Huayna of some of his best cities (Machu Picchu in particular) early in the war, as well as his only supply of horses. The 2nd stack should earn a few XPs fighting off counter-attacks as units arrive in Vilcas.

Another consideration will be Astronomy, because I've already spotted one uninhabited island out in the ocean and there may be more. Mind you, I wouldn't be surprised if Ragnar gets to it first, and I should be able to trade something to him for it. Plus it will likely be easier to just take my rivals' cities rather than found my own.

 

[Sisiutil]

Another thing I should mention is that I seem to recall that Huayna's northern horse city is built right on top of the horses, so the only way to deprive him of horses is to capture the city.

 

[Gooblah]

Hmmm...I may be a total noob, but I believe that the blue stack should be produced earlier. The Hindu Holy Site is at Cuzco, and most of, if not all of Huanya's cities have Hindus in them. The extra income from his shine could help a lot...

 

[Gooblah]

Then again, a capital is the most protected city of an empire...Only hit it when you've got like 20 cannons...

 

[Sisiutil]

Hmmm...I may be a total noob, but I believe that the blue stack should be produced earlier. The Hindu Holy Site is at Cuzco, and most of, if not all of Huanya's cities have Hindus in them. The extra income from his shine could help a lot...

As was mentioned above, it doesn't appear as though Cuzco has a shrine yet.
By the way, I haven't built the National Epic yet--any thoughts on that? GP are starting to get expensive, after all.

 

[Gooblah]

ohhh. I didn't see that; heh...
National Epic? I'm thinking in your secondary GP Farm, if u have one, seeing as how the main one is going to need not many multipliers..

 

[popejubal]

Keep pressing. Even if all you do is pillage his countryside down to the dirt, make it hurt.

[RE: * next to northernmost Incan city]

No. That's HC's Forbidden Palace.

Yep. Versailles has not yet been built in this game.

(Cuzco doesn't have a shrine as far as I can tell from the log .. only Isabella has them with Islam & Buddhism.)

If Cuzco falls, Machu Picchu will likely become the new capital. Not only is MP larger (with better trade routes); it has more in the surrounding tiles. Given HC's running Bureaucracy, Machu Picchu will very likely make up a decent portion of the loss when it becomes the capital.

If you look in the graphs button (right most on top), click on the Top 5 Cities and Wonders at the bottom of that screen. It tells you every wonder that has been built (although it includes wonders that you are building that you have not yet completed).

Since Versailles and the Incan's holy shrine are not listed in this screen, neither have been built. If you get really lucky, then HC will generate a Great Prophet and build the shrine for you while you are attacking him. The Cuzco looks like the very last city you want to capture since you want him to have as many opportunities to find that Great Prophet as he can.

 

[Gooblah]

If you get really lucky, then HC will generate a Great Prophet and build the shrine for you while you are attacking him. The Cuzco looks like the very last city you want to capture since you want him to have as many opportunities to find that Great Prophet as he can.

That's the problem: if. In the event that Huayna doesn't, you're going to have a big problem, Sisutil, since it doesn't look like you're gonna be getting GPs anytime soon.

 

[Sisiutil]

That's the problem: if. In the event that Huayna doesn't, you're going to have a big problem, Sisutil, since it doesn't look like you're gonna be getting GPs anytime soon.

If I can kill Hauyna, I won't need 'em. But then again, that's why I asked for suggestions for the NE--a couple of temples, a cathedral or two, and I can run several priests there and possible generate a GP before too long. If needed.

 

[patagonia]

I'm leaning more towards Rifling rather than Cavalry, as they will provide good protective units that counter Cavalry (I have several Combat II/Formation Pikemen that I can upgrade to Rifles) and Replaceable Parts is a pre-requisite for Railroads.

I'd still go for Nationalism before replaceable parts/rifling. With Huayna close to rifles, the ability to draft grens is too good to pass up and it'll free up production to build/whip cannon. Once nationalism's in, switch science to tax (for residual upgrades) plus whatever culture you need to keep things happy and productive.

Don't forget to draft the most distant cities first. It has the added benefit of all your conscripts reaching the front line at about the same time.

Rifling's still a way off (and railroad too far away to be relevant) and you're in a situation where a short term benefit will win the game comprehensively - no need to draw it out any longer than you need to. Your production advantage will continue to ramp up as you take cities so there's no need to worry about allowing the enemy a tech advantage.

Edit:

As for NE and shrines, don't waste the hammers. A prophet is going to mean squat by the time you can generate and use him, you don't need much in the way of tech and won't be able to lightbulb anything sufficiently interesting anyway.

 

[Say_my_name]

I'd still go for Nationalism before replaceable parts/rifling. With Huayna close to rifles, the ability to draft grens is too good to pass up and it'll free up production to build/whip cannon. Once nationalism's in, switch science to tax (for residual upgrades) plus whatever culture you need to keep things happy and productive.

To my knwoledge it's not possible to draft Grenadiers. You are forced to draft Musketman until you have Rifling for Rifleman.