ALC Game 17, Take 2: Russia/Peter (BtS)

[Validator]

It does look like Caesar has to go. It seems you've got two options as to how to proceed:

1. Chop a settler after the Work boat and hope to get the copper site before the Roman. At the same time you can research AH next instead of the Wheel so you'll know where horses are by the time the settler finishes. This could provide an alternative to the copper site.

2. Build a settler after the work boat. Research IW next. IW currently shows 23 turns to research, but if you use the fishing boat on the clams and work that you should be able to get IW done about the same time the settler finishes. This would have the advantage of denying iron to Caesar if one is available in between Rome and Moscow, but if iron doesn't show up in a convenient spot you could end up losing out on the copper.

 

[illram]

I'd say at this point, the main goal is preventing him from building anything but archers. Whether it's with archers, chariots or warriors, don't let him hook up that copper or any horses. With that said, I'd go for AH, then the wheel if there are horses, but if no horses, archery, then the wheel then IW. At worst AH will tell you where to pillage. There must be either iron or horses near you. If not that's really, really bad luck...

 

[Conqueror78]

Validator,
With respect, your option 1) looks like pie in the sky--no way we can get to copper first, let alone "hook it up" to our capital.

I say "chop" a new settler, and with those plains, I feel a lot more hopeful that AH will --> horses (and, more or less *on* the route to Rome).

 

[Leeksoup]

Would it be possible to fit a galley in somewhere? You could use it to scout that landmass above you. I'd bet anything that it has either iron or copper somewhere in it- islands like that far from other metal usually do.

 

[NaZdReG]

damn, tough luck on the extended view of your island. I would go AH and try to chariot rush the romans. or beeline iron working and PRAY that iron is nearby. the copper is unobtainable honestly and getting it would put a crimp on the space used by the roman capitol. so chariots early or iron working later.. your choice.

when time permits I'd get a work boat out to scout the island chain and see if you can find any other neighbors. once you take out ceasar I'd fogbust to keep the barbs from becoming a little too friendly .

best of luck with round 2

NaZ

 

[Conqueror78]

I agree with NaZdReG--fogbust plus explore northern island are good ideas, but let's defer 'em 'til we've chariot-rushed Caesar, ASAP!

 

[kniteowl]

Why Wheel Before AH? Do you want to hook up the Gold?

I'd go AH then Wheel.

Assuming we can reasonably reach the horses

Hook up the Horses, build 2 Chariots then Declare War and Pillage and Sleep on top of the Copper so he can't build Spears or any Metal Units, he might get brave and send a Stack of archers to take on the 2 chariots but by that time it'll be too late because you're stack of Chariots will mow him down.

While you're at War, Research Writing Masonry, Poly, Aesthetics, (Possibly Sailing, Marble very far away) and Literature for a GL beeline. I'd only Go for Alphabet if there are nearby Civs, but with limited data I'll play on the assumption I only have one known rival. Most of my games I play the AI tend to ignore Aesthetics and beeline for either Alphabet or Mathematics, but that's on Prince or maybe it's because I haven't played against a Industrious Leader yet.

Assuming you can't get horses, Go IW and Deny him Iron so he can't get Prats, If you're cautious of Barbs go Archery before IW.

If all fails play Peaceful until Construction and Gunpowder, being Phil and possibly getting the GL will allow you to beeline to Liberalism and Gunpowder/Nationhood easily but that's in a Worst case scenario, also remember to constantly build Spies to pillage his Copper and keep an Eye on the Demo graphics for his Power level.

Note: looks like you'll have lots of coastal cities, Colossus maybe be a nice wonder to aim for after GL.

 

[CivSetä]

I think race to the copper is already lost, you can't get settler out fast enough. I would go for AH next to find horses, chariot rush is the best option now. In any case Caesar must die, if there is no horses then IW asap. With that research that should not be a problem. And don't waste anything to espionage at this point!

If you can't find horses and have a settler ready, I would suggest green city in my dotmap. You could build workboat for it in your capital beforehand to get it ready faster.

I also found another very nice city site, it could be a late game production powerhouse with levees, watermills, lumber mills AND enough food for several engineers if you can spare forests for health. And it has gold for early game boost. Or it could be a nice research city also, with enough production to build GL and other buildings on its own. Lots of riverside anyway.

 

[Haika]

Although I've had chariot rushes work, they tend to be somewhat risky I think, especially if your opponent has metal. Also, supposedly the new BtS AI will whip more often during war. Each additional archer that pops up this way can cost you 2 to 3 more chariots! Of course, this is assuming you get reachable horses in the first place. Although in warlords you were pretty much guaranteed either horses or copper, or at worst iron, in my current game, apparently a single horse was enough to chase away almost all the other resources in the capital . Perhaps that's a coincidence, or perhaps it's Firaxis weighing the strategic resources more in terms of capital location bonii?

Perhaps the far copper may be a sign to think beyond the sword . Your position relative to Caesar is good, you are on top of him, so to speak. He can't block you off from a large chunk of the continent, but you can do so to him. If you get your second and third settler out asap using your high food resources and aggressive chopping, I think you should be able to put down the red and black cities before Caesar can (assuming he puts down something like the teal city first). If you research mysticism and chop their respective monuments, Caesar is going to to be limited to 3-4 cities until you choose to open borders with him, while you can settle the rich green lands to your leisure.

Either way, this is just an alternative I'm throwing out there. Your chariots are neither immortals nor war chariots.

 

[EEE_BOY]

Would it be possible to fit a galley in somewhere? You could use it to scout that landmass above you. I'd bet anything that it has either iron or copper somewhere in it- islands like that far from other metal usually do.

basically a fishing boat would do that job very well and it's cheap.

and u can still turn it back to work some seafood if u found u are isolated.

 

[Cabledawg]

If its 23 turns till Ironworking, then I would go that route. Thisll give you time to build a warrior for the capitol, warrior for 2nd city, and another WB...not necesarily in that order.

The reason this strategy is prolly better is a few reasons. Youll know if Caesar has iron, chariot rush requires more units to take a city than swords and the maintenance on those units this early is debilitating, youre not gonna get that copper but caesar will settle it and it wont have culture and it wont be on a hill, so his second city will be your first target for your swords to get experience. Take his second city and head for his capitol.

Rome's capitol looks like a good candidate for Globe Theatre/Natl Epic combo. With as much health around, it could whip out all its infrastructure in no time, grow to size 18 and run specialist.

 

[Killroyan]

Rome is definitely going to get a settler and build 1E of the copper. He will get there before you too even if you would chop if you ask me. I don't know about the AI in BTS but strategic resources are a must. But hey, if Julius is building a settler he is not building troops

Best thing you can do is get AH->wheel->IW (if there are no horses). Hook up the horses and pillage julius dry. Maybe even sailing somewhere in there to get some triremes pillaging his fishing boats so he can't whip too much. AH gives you a better idea about where to put the second city for the horses, but I stick with my comment that I expext horses somewhere on the plains to the west of your capital. One more question however, did Rome already revolt to slavery?

 

[Yeekim]

Research Animal Husbandry first, while praying for horses. Even if your first three or four chariots are far too few to take Rome, they should be quite enough to nab a worker, pillage his land and curb his development by making him mass produce (whip?) archers instead of metal units, workers or settlers.

Then you can continue with IW to finish Julius off.

EDIT: 15 seafood resources around your island alone... Sushi Co, anyone?

 

[EEE_BOY]

1,aid by the gold, if u change your research to ironworking, it can be finished when your settler is ready. if it is an isolated, the southen tiles can be developed much quicker.
2,chariot rush is valid consider roman's capital is not on hill. pillaging his metal resource is essential.

early rush is still the most effective way to control the whole island (obviously not continent, its small). either chariot or metal unit is ok this time.

after eliminating the Roman, we could go wonder happy and build all the marble wonder alone the way. we can ignore monotheism and buld the Shwedagon Paya. after writing, -> Aesthetics-> literature-> maths->canlender (also u can ->drama->music is also an option which opens philosophy and maybe culture win through The Sistine Chapel), the free GA is good for an extended golden age(Mausoleum of Maussollos) to switch civics.

I can see sid's sushi co. might be good to grab, save an GS for the Standard Ethanol if there is no oil on your small island. settle small islands around this big island and libarate them as colony. build air ship to scout possible invasion. build spies to steal techs. this ALC is going to be an example to demostrate most of those shiny features in TBS.

 

[Mesousa]

Chariots ftw. The BTS Ai is much more keen on mixed forces, but in my experience that means archers/axemen this early in the game, instead of just archers. The (admittedly few) chariot rushes I've played went well, didn't run into too many spearmen. So I'd go for AH.

 

[MangleMeElmo]

Here ya go. Caesar will probably claim the copper, but by the looks of your continent I'm confident iron will pop up somewhere convenient for you to access early enough. I'm not quite sure what to say about this because I believe that my dotmap presents the most common sense choices for city locations. Not to sound arrogant, but that's the reason why i took the time to make it.

 

[EEE_BOY]

My dot map.

City A B can effectively block Caesar.

City C overlap with A and roman capital but claim the extra fish. too much food there for roman capital,that is waste. extra fish = three scientists. But It depends on where Caesar settle. u can aggressively settle A and B, and later raze and resettle C.

I guess Caesar would settle his 2nd city on the grass hill 1 SE of the copper. that way , your city would go 2E of my original city A.

of course, every thing changes pending where horse or iron is.

 

[CivSetä]

Here is my suggestion for future cities. I tried to cover the whole continent with minimal overlapping, settle some islands too and you can easily reach 15+ cities. Every city has enough food to grow relatively fast and to support some specialists later.

In my last post I suggested founding green or red city first - yellow is also a good choice if you want to go toward Caesar. If you go AH next then it would have pigs to work right from the start for fast growth and whipping. Gold would help later. Of course location of horses and iron can change it all.

Photobucket is still down, so attachement only.

 

[TheArchduke]

Hmm, the capital on a grassland hill? Why not the plains hill of the start it builds things way quicker.

Ah well. In any case, kill Caesaer and do so quickly, he won´t trade with you anyway if you guys alone, so better to go ahead and do it now before Iron comes around. As soon as AH comes in, check for horses. Else I would try to dash for the copper.

 

[wayne07]

I played to 500 BC.... in my game. The copper placement is worth a try.... although i got no idea why julius in my game is so stupid....