ALC Game 17, Take 2: Russia/Peter (BtS)

[uncarved block]

Actually, aelf, that's less of a concern than before. The AI will explore with Work Boats now, and there's a very good chance that one or two will show up before Optics if island placement allows it. A welcome tweak, IMO.

 

[Chrispy]

Looking at the various dot maps, it looks like there's room for at around 12 cities. That's a decent-enough sized empire to win the game, and the land lends itself to the SE, especially once I can spread irrigation from the rivers to the plains in the north and especially the grasslands in the southwest.

It does appear to be plenty big. And given this is the first BtS game, I can't help but think about the 15 seafood resources visible already, making Sid's Sushi all the more powerful (and economically crippling!)

 

[Florian]

It really is amazing how much seafood this island has.

 

[Sisiutil]

It does appear to be plenty big. And given this is the first BtS game, I can't help but think about the 15 seafood resources visible already, making Sid's Sushi all the more powerful (and economically crippling!)

Yeah, I'm undecided on what I think of the corporations, though like I said, I've only played one other BtS game off-line so far. Frankly, I think they're too expensive. Not only do you have to abandon one of the most powerful civics in the game (State Property) for them to operate; they cost you a great person and really add to your maintenance costs. It seems to me that in the real world, unlike BtS, corporations aim to create more wealth than they consume; they just don't go around sharing it.

Is it just me or are the game programmers at Firaxis a bunch of dirty rotten stinkin' commie pinkos?

I think there needs to be a balancing feature--say a corporate tax rate. You can decrease the amount of maintenance required for the corporations to operate, and increase the amount of gold acquired from the corporate HQ, but a higher tax rate decreases the per-city benefit to food, production, research, or culture.

But at this point, talking about corporations is getting way ahead of ourselves...

 

[Sisiutil]

It really is amazing how much seafood this island has.

Yeah, once I finish of the Romans and REX to fill up the land and make the barbs go bye-bye, my military focus will likely be on my navy. That's a lot of food tiles to protect from barbs and others.

 

[NaZdReG]

firaxis already said corps will be adjusted in next patch. until then I do not found them and use state property to stop the ai from using them against me.

so IW next, hopefully there is nearby iron. I like the plan of denying caesar access to that copper. what will you use to defend it? does he already have archers?

NaZ

 

[Gr8scott]

Is it wise to go worker stealing and try to deny copper with a warrior or two?

Seems to me that would just put the Romans on a war footing causing them to start their military spam earlier and making them harder to take over.

I certainly wouldn't stir the pot for a worker grab although denying them copper would be tempting...

GS

 

[DragonHawk]

Is it wise to go worker stealing and try to deny copper with a warrior or two?

Seems to me that would just put the Romans on a war footing causing them to start their military spam earlier and making them harder to take over.

I certainly wouldn't stir the pot for a worker grab although denying them copper would be tempting...

GS

Without the coppers, they can only spam warriors or archers -> easily countered by cover axes. Also, without workers = less improvement = less pop growth = less units Caesar can whip.

I do not know if this is changed in BTS, but in my experience with BetterAI, AI actually use their garrisons to chase your forward troops around if it thinks it has a chance to kill them. So you can actually lure some archers out of Rome with a lowly warrior, lead them to the path of your main army = easy experience for your main army

 

[LightSpectra]

This game will be difficult; although it's the same difficulty, the improved AI means you're in for a rough game. Let's hope for some positive random events.

 

[Pomp]

Is it wise to go worker stealing and try to deny copper with a warrior or two?

Depends on the circumstances. If we're close enough to axes/swords or chariots that we can get a few out before Caesar can spam enough archers to go on the offensive, it's worth it to deny him the metal, IMO. Also, if we can take his workers and maybe do a bit of pillaging, we'll reduce his ability to whip.

 

[BARBEERIAN]

Best bet is to settle forward for that copper first (and a nice Garrison location to sack Rome). Pre-road from Moscow to the river asap, then go pre-road the gold and copper tiles. Rush a monument asap by mining the copper and working it. It will hopefully be enough to get you that desert hill for a quick rush when you DoW, plus you'll need the food from the wheat and flood plains.

If you have time between sending out the first settler and acquiring copper, maybe push a second city out to a somewhat southern location to help prevent barbs (and maybe throw an axe or two into the rush). Don't bother with a 3rd settler until Rome has been subdued though.

Once that border pops in the copper city you should get the desert hill, road it up and DoW when it's most opportune. (Don't wait too long or his culture will probably push back onto the desert hill, losing you the advantage of 1 move to be planted on Rome's doorstep.

 

[sigmakan]

Yea, some of the random events can really screw you over. I was REXing and so many of my cities only had one Phalanx in them. And then an event pops up saying there is a barbarian uprising, and next turn I see 4 barbarian axemen headed my way.

Needless to say, I quit the game.

So heres to hoping that the random events go in your favor!

 

[Gr8scott]

Research: wheel => AH

Worker: farm corn, road to gold, road in SW direction to connect river and new city.

Build: finish work boat, build warrior, at size 4 shift to settler, rush settler when able.

existing military fogbust settler path to 1E of copper.

plan: try to get city 1E of copper. It will be close and I think you have a shot. If not, divert settler to try and claim horses.

Question: If you see the AI moving with an archer and a settler, what happens if you declare with a warrior in the area? Will the AI retreat with the settler until the your warrior is cleared or will they found a city anyway? If they retreat, you could use a judicious DoW to get a few more turns to start the city.

Goodluck!

 

[popejubal]

Depends on the circumstances. If we're close enough to axes/swords or chariots that we can get a few out before Caesar can spam enough archers to go on the offensive, it's worth it to deny him the metal, IMO. Also, if we can take his workers and maybe do a bit of pillaging, we'll reduce his ability to whip.

It will be a few pops before Caesar can even work the copper unless he drops a city right next to it. Even then, you can just send over your troops to pillage as soon as he founds that city. By that time, you'll have Iron Working easily and you'll have a settler ready to claim the Iron that is revealed.

...you will have a settler ready for that, right?

Unless Iron pops up in the BFC of Rome, I don't see any real problem with Caesar. You'll be able to pillage anything that he builds and have only Archers or maybe Catapaults to deal with even if you have to wait for Construction for a real invasion. Just wait until Iron Working is complete and then you can make an informed decision about what to do with the Roman land that you're going to take in couple of dozen turns.

 

[Sisiutil]

Okay, so it sounds like Work Boat - Warrior - Settler as a plan while researching IW makes sense. The Settler will attempt to claim the copper, but failing that, be ready in time to claim iron.

 

[Gr8scott]

What is your worker doing during the IW research? If chopping then it sounds good. If nothing, then I would consider the wheel prior to IW to give the worker something productive to do (speeds settler to destination and needed to connect capital to copper)

 

[Validator]

Okay, so it sounds like Work Boat - Warrior - Settler as a plan while researching IW makes sense. The Settler will attempt to claim the copper, but failing that, be ready in time to claim iron.

I agree with the build order. The worker should be able to chop the two hill forests to speed things up. The chops and finishing the settler by whipping should be able to get the settler out around 2700-2800BC which should be early enough to get the copper. I would actually look to found the city 2E of the copper (if its available). It gives a little better fat cross but more importantly it means St. Pete is a little closer to Moscow. That will help with distance maintenance, but mainly it would hopefully help deter Caesar from founding his second city in between Moscow and St. Pete. You don't have to worry about needing a border expansion to hook up the copper, because you'll have plenty of time before barbs start becoming an issue. The only problem would be if Caesar decided to archer rush you. That wouldn't happen in Warlords, but I don't know about BtS.

I don't think going for IW next is a good move. If you do this and get beaten to the copper site you won't know what to do with your settler since you won't know where iron or horses are. You would have to build another settler to claim them, unless you get very lucky and just happen to settle your second city near where one will pop up. AH next followed by Wheel hedges your bet since your settler can go for either the copper site or a horse site.

If it looks like you'll be able to get the copper site I would NOT steal a worker from Caesar if the situation arises. There's no reason to risk an attack by Roman archers when you've got the only source of copper. You'll get his worker soon enough once your force of axes is ready.

 

[kniteowl]

Yea, some of the random events can really screw you over. I was REXing and so many of my cities only had one Phalanx in them. And then an event pops up saying there is a barbarian uprising, and next turn I see 4 barbarian axemen headed my way.

Needless to say, I quit the game.

So heres to hoping that the random events go in your favor!

LMAO I've had the Same random event in one of my own games except it was a stack of 4 barb Archers and I'd researched BW and AH but there were no Copper or Hroses nearby...:S and I thought I was toast, I pressed enter and funny enough the Archers ran off into the Fog. With the Oppotunity I beelined Archery and Spammed 3 Archers in all my cities (I was protective) and I wasn't gonna risk IW, even though I later found Iron in my Capital FC in it's 3rd ring so next time before quitting a game I Suggest you should check whether or not they'll attack you.

20 turns later the 4 archers Attacked and Pillage my next door neighbour, poor guy... funny how even negative random events play in your favor

 

[spybot]

I've just started to read these threads and they're really informative and entertaining, but 9 pages and not even at second city yet??

 

[futurehermit]

Okay, okay, after all that back-and-forth discussion about where to found the capital, I decided that 1NW sounded best after all:

Look at the difference shifting to the gold tile made to both research and to production